Losing Egypt?

[Geee]

So I haven't turned the tv on all day, and probably should...but are we SURE we know who we should be rooting for here? (We=the Obama Administration.) I don't trust any of them. The Egyptian rioters, the Egyptian government, the Iranians or the Obama administration.

The real power behind these riots is Al-Qaeda. The Muslim Brotherhood is directly connected to Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al-Qaeda's #2.

 

They see this as their chance to seize control throughout the Middle East and surround Israel and Saudi Arabia, their greatest enemy and the nation they want to control more than any other.

 

Egypt Islamists lukewarm on calls for mass protest

1/23/11

 

(Snip)The Brotherhood, which political analysts say has the ability to call thousands of disciplined supporters on to the streets if it wishes, has not openly called for its members to join in, but said it did not oppose youths or anyone else participating.

(Snip)

 

This week in the Middle East

1/26/11

 

(Snip)

 

The huge demonstrations in Egypt yesterday didn't come entirely out of the blue. Strikes and street protests have long been a feature of Egyptian life and the political debate there is far more open than it was in Tunisia. The shock yesterday was in the scale of the protests – far beyond what the authorities and even the organisers expected, and all that without much support from the traditional opposition parties (including the Muslim Brotherhood which had declined to give its formal backing).

(Snip)

 

 

 

(Snip)

 

Greg Palcott is in Egypt and said this morning and said that these demonstrations have been organizing in the mosques for weeks now.

[pollyannaish]

So I haven't turned the tv on all day, and probably should...but are we SURE we know who we should be rooting for here? (We=the Obama Administration.) I don't trust any of them. The Egyptian rioters, the Egyptian government, the Iranians or the Obama administration.

The real power behind these riots is Al-Qaeda. The Muslim Brotherhood is directly connected to Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al-Qaeda's #2.

 

They see this as their chance to seize control throughout the Middle East and surround Israel and Saudi Arabia, their greatest enemy and the nation they want to control more than any other.

 

Egypt Islamists lukewarm on calls for mass protest

1/23/11

 

(Snip)The Brotherhood, which political analysts say has the ability to call thousands of disciplined supporters on to the streets if it wishes, has not openly called for its members to join in, but said it did not oppose youths or anyone else participating.

(Snip)

 

This week in the Middle East

1/26/11

 

(Snip)

 

The huge demonstrations in Egypt yesterday didn't come entirely out of the blue. Strikes and street protests have long been a feature of Egyptian life and the political debate there is far more open than it was in Tunisia. The shock yesterday was in the scale of the protests – far beyond what the authorities and even the organisers expected, and all that without much support from the traditional opposition parties (including the Muslim Brotherhood which had declined to give its formal backing).

(Snip)

 

 

 

(Snip)

 

So is this trustworthy, or a "Shah of Irah" moment? Edited to add: It sounds to me from reading, they aren't unhappy about this because they know it will lead the country in their direction...but if it is crushed, they don't want the responsibility for it to crush their power and influence in the process.

[pollyannaish]

Valin

 

If you were president, what would you do?

[ErnstBlofeld]

ErnstBlofeld

 

Democracy in the Middle East(with the exception of Turkey and Israel)is not possible. The Middle East does not have the history of "democracy".

 

Tell that to the Iraqis.

The last time I checked, the Iraqis have not formed a government yet.

[ErnstBlofeld]

So I haven't turned the tv on all day, and probably should...but are we SURE we know who we should be rooting for here? (We=the Obama Administration.) I don't trust any of them. The Egyptian rioters, the Egyptian government, the Iranians or the Obama administration.

The real power behind these riots is Al-Qaeda. The Muslim Brotherhood is directly connected to Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al-Qaeda's #2.

 

They see this as their chance to seize control throughout the Middle East and surround Israel and Saudi Arabia, their greatest enemy and the nation they want to control more than any other.

 

 

And we're supporting the uprising because we're spooked?

Sabre is correct

[ErnstBlofeld]

Democracy in the Middle East(with the exception of Turkey and Israel)is not possible. The Middle East does not have the history of "democracy".

There wasn't "Democracy" in the USA, either. What was established as a Republic has changed over the years, until we are now "Democratized."

 

How can you keep the boys down on the farm, once they've been to the big city?

 

The greatest fear of Iran & the Muslim Brotherhood is a Democratic "awakening," which is why Islamic Jihad must move now in Yemen, Tunisia & Egypt.[& anywhere else that they can] The Saudi's are very threatened by this uprising, too.

 

All you going too see now is radicalized governments springing up. Lebanon was a harbinger of things to come.Remember,Hamas was elected in a free election.In the January 2006, Palestinian parliamentary elections Hamas won a decisive majority in the Palestinian Parliament.A Pan Islamic state from the Atlantic Ocean to the Persian Gulf. There must be celebrations in Damascus and Iran. Who Knows? They might be funding this.

[Saltbag]

I love Obama's sage advice on how to listen to a country's people, and his hopes they "do the right thing." I'd love to see Obama put in the leadership postion of Egypt, let alone actually understanding his own advice (as he proclaims it) and actually applying it to his own Czardom of the USA. His speech was like a parent talking to their kids. Completely obtuse on global understanding.

[ErnstBlofeld]

I love Obama's sage advice on how to listen to a country's people, and his hopes they "do the right thing." I'd love to see Obama put in the leadership postion of Egypt, let alone actually understanding his own advice (as he proclaims it) and actually applying it to his own Czardom of the USA. His speech was like a parent talking to their kids. Completely obtuse on global understanding.

 

The people who Obama is supporting may will be our future enemy.

[ErnstBlofeld]

I love Obama's sage advice on how to listen to a country's people, and his hopes they "do the right thing." I'd love to see Obama put in the leadership postion of Egypt, let alone actually understanding his own advice (as he proclaims it) and actually applying it to his own Czardom of the USA. His speech was like a parent talking to their kids. Completely obtuse on global understanding.

 

The people who Obama is supporting may will be our future enemy.

The ironic thing is they will be using our military equipment.

[Saltbag]

I love Obama's sage advice on how to listen to a country's people, and his hopes they "do the right thing." I'd love to see Obama put in the leadership postion of Egypt, let alone actually understanding his own advice (as he proclaims it) and actually applying it to his own Czardom of the USA. His speech was like a parent talking to their kids. Completely obtuse on global understanding.

 

The people who Obama is supporting may will be our future enemy.

The ironic thing is they will be using our military equipment.

 

Absolutely. They could be our future enemy, but then who can we absolutely exclude from that status in that region when things get dire. In this regard, I think Obama is much further out of his league than his "political" idiom can handle.

[ErnstBlofeld]

I love Obama's sage advice on how to listen to a country's people, and his hopes they "do the right thing." I'd love to see Obama put in the leadership postion of Egypt, let alone actually understanding his own advice (as he proclaims it) and actually applying it to his own Czardom of the USA. His speech was like a parent talking to their kids. Completely obtuse on global understanding.

 

The people who Obama is supporting may will be our future enemy.

The ironic thing is they will be using our military equipment.

 

Absolutely. They could be our future enemy, but then who can we absolutely exclude from that status in that region when things get dire. In this regard, I think Obama is so far out of his league than his "political" idiom can handle.

 

I agree. This is a international incident of humongous proportions and he has handled it poorly.The reason why he is handling it so poorly he does not know the mechanics of Middle Eastern politics. He should be calling former presidents and diplomats to get advice.He also should also be reaching out to the Europeans,especially the Russians to help out. You are saying the Russians? There was a period of time where the Russians had great political sway in Egypt under Nasser and Sadat. Many in the Egyptian officer corps were trained Moscow.Mubarak himself was trained as a pilot in Russia

[clearvision]

President Obama called on Egypt to bring back the Internet and access to social media websites such as Facebook and Twitter that have been suspended this week by the government there.

 

"The people of Egypt have rights that are universal," Obama said. "That includes the right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech and the ability to determine their own destiny. These are human rights and the United States will stand up for them everywhere.

 

"I also call upon the Egyptian government to reverse the actions that they've taken to interfere with access to the Internet, with cellphone service and to social networks that do so much to connect people in the 21st century."

 

Social Networks? In the 10 minutes of discussion on this from our President, Social Networks is an issue? Sigh.

[Saltbag]

Like I said ... he's completely out of his league. I'd say he should be managing a KFC, but the racial implications of "Original" versus "extra crispy" would hold up the drive-thru for hours.

[clearvision]

One thing Egypt is making clear is the need for non-centralized wireless, satellite, or hardline communication systems. It is too easy for a government to shut down the "internet". I really hate to think how crippled we would be if someone shut down a few key telecommunication centers. How would you get info? How would you find out what is going on? Contact your extended families? Plan your response? Things to ponder and maybe things for a future Bill Gates to come up with. A non centralized communication system.

 

Edited:

Where is Ham radio these days?

[ErnstBlofeld]

One thing Egypt is making clear is the need for non-centralized wireless, satellite, or hardline communication systems. It is too easy for a government to shut down the "internet". I really hate to think how crippled we would be if someone shut down a few key telecommunication centers. How would you get info? How would you find out what is going on? Contact your extended families? Plan your response? Things to ponder and maybe things for a future Bill Gates to come up with. A non centralized communication system.

 

If you are a dictatorship everything is centralized. They want to control the flow of information.

[clearvision]

One thing Egypt is making clear is the need for non-centralized wireless, satellite, or hardline communication systems. It is too easy for a government to shut down the "internet". I really hate to think how crippled we would be if someone shut down a few key telecommunication centers. How would you get info? How would you find out what is going on? Contact your extended families? Plan your response? Things to ponder and maybe things for a future Bill Gates to come up with. A non centralized communication system.

 

If you are a dictatorship everything is centralized. They want to control the flow of information.

Yes of course. But I'm worried about our country in the long run. We need to start planning now for how we maintain communication if our internet goes down, either from external attack or from within.

[pollyannaish]

One thing Egypt is making clear is the need for non-centralized wireless, satellite, or hardline communication systems. It is too easy for a government to shut down the "internet". I really hate to think how crippled we would be if someone shut down a few key telecommunication centers. How would you get info? How would you find out what is going on? Contact your extended families? Plan your response? Things to ponder and maybe things for a future Bill Gates to come up with. A non centralized communication system.

 

If you are a dictatorship everything is centralized. They want to control the flow of information.

 

I think clear is referring to decentralized information in the US. Obama has constantly asked for an internet/cell/communications kill switch. The events in Egypt are a reminder of why that is a very bad idea and we need to fight it tooth and nail.

 

In my opinion, that is one of the most important fights of the day. More important, perhaps, than even healthcare.

[ErnstBlofeld]

One thing Egypt is making clear is the need for non-centralized wireless, satellite, or hardline communication systems. It is too easy for a government to shut down the "internet". I really hate to think how crippled we would be if someone shut down a few key telecommunication centers. How would you get info? How would you find out what is going on? Contact your extended families? Plan your response? Things to ponder and maybe things for a future Bill Gates to come up with. A non centralized communication system.

 

If you are a dictatorship everything is centralized. They want to control the flow of information.

Yes of course. But I'm worried about our country in the long run. We need to start planning now for how we maintain communication if our internet goes down, either from external attack or from within.

 

I do not worry because it won't happen. How do I know it will not happen is the people will not allow this sort of thing to happen.We are a free-enterpise society and we never liked central government .Obamacare is the test bed of centralized government here in the U.S. I do not think it going to last very long.

[pollyannaish]

One thing Egypt is making clear is the need for non-centralized wireless, satellite, or hardline communication systems. It is too easy for a government to shut down the "internet". I really hate to think how crippled we would be if someone shut down a few key telecommunication centers. How would you get info? How would you find out what is going on? Contact your extended families? Plan your response? Things to ponder and maybe things for a future Bill Gates to come up with. A non centralized communication system.

 

If you are a dictatorship everything is centralized. They want to control the flow of information.

Yes of course. But I'm worried about our country in the long run. We need to start planning now for how we maintain communication if our internet goes down, either from external attack or from within.

 

Does this mean we all have to go get Ham radio licenses again? If so, it IS the 70s all over again.

[clearvision]

"We" may not have much control. Our country has become dependent on a few critical electronic "backbones" for phone and internet communication. If those are "knocked out" either by force or by decree we are in a world of hurt. Because of economies of scale we have 1/2 dozen or so major communication infrastructures in the US. We need to diversify or have backup communication that does not depend on AT&T,Verison,Comcast,etc.

[Rheo]

 

Does this mean we all have to go get Ham radio licenses again? If so, it IS the 70s all over again.

I knew I would be in style again at some point.

 

carry on.

[clearvision]

"We" may not have much control. Our country has become dependent on a few critical electronic "backbones" for phone and internet communication. If those are "knocked out" either by force or by decree we are in a world of hurt. Because of economies of scale we have 1/2 dozen or so major communication infrastructures in the US. We need to diversify or have backup communication that does not depend on AT&T,Verison,Comcast,etc.

 

I am more worried by an EMP burst either man-made or by nature.

So yes. EMP by our enemies over what, a dozen critical spots, and our communication structure is broken. We are totally dependent on a very limited number of central communication centers.

[Saltbag]

One thing Egypt is making clear is the need for non-centralized wireless, satellite, or hardline communication systems. It is too easy for a government to shut down the "internet". I really hate to think how crippled we would be if someone shut down a few key telecommunication centers. How would you get info? How would you find out what is going on? Contact your extended families? Plan your response? Things to ponder and maybe things for a future Bill Gates to come up with. A non centralized communication system.

 

If you are a dictatorship everything is centralized. They want to control the flow of information.

Yes of course. But I'm worried about our country in the long run. We need to start planning now for how we maintain communication if our internet goes down, either from external attack or from within.

 

I do not worry because it won't happen. How do I know it will not happen is the people will not allow this sort of thing to happen.We are a free-enterpise society and we never liked central government .Obamacare is the test bed of centralized government here in the U.S. I do not think it going to last very long.

 

I worry incredibly when they test the feelers by proposing laws where "We're not going to do this, but leave the right open in whatever they deem to be "extreme circumstances."

[clearvision]

One thing Egypt is making clear is the need for non-centralized wireless, satellite, or hardline communication systems. It is too easy for a government to shut down the "internet". I really hate to think how crippled we would be if someone shut down a few key telecommunication centers. How would you get info? How would you find out what is going on? Contact your extended families? Plan your response? Things to ponder and maybe things for a future Bill Gates to come up with. A non centralized communication system.

 

If you are a dictatorship everything is centralized. They want to control the flow of information.

Yes of course. But I'm worried about our country in the long run. We need to start planning now for how we maintain communication if our internet goes down, either from external attack or from within.

 

I do not worry because it won't happen. How do I know it will not happen is the people will not allow this sort of thing to happen.We are a free-enterpise society and we never liked central government .Obamacare is the test bed of centralized government here in the U.S. I do not think it going to last very long.

 

I worry incredibly when they test the feelers by proposing laws where "We're not going to do this, but leave the right open in whatever they deem to be "extreme circumstances."

There are 1000 protesters in front of the White House... Extreme threat... They have correctly spelled signs... boom.... all communications down.

[ErnstBlofeld]

"We" may not have much control. Our country has become dependent on a few critical electronic "backbones" for phone and internet communication. If those are "knocked out" either by force or by decree we are in a world of hurt. Because of economies of scale we have 1/2 dozen or so major communication infrastructures in the US. We need to diversify or have backup communication that does not depend on AT&T,Verison,Comcast,etc.

 

I am more worried by an EMP burst either man-made or by nature.

So yes. EMP by our enemies over what, a dozen critical spots, and our communication structure is broken. We are totally dependent on a very limited number of central communication centers.

But where is the money going to come from to expand? Even though you are right that building communications should have been a priority the issue of where to get the money raises its head.The government have addressed the issue to develop their system to be EMP proof for the military(USAF,USN)in case of a nuclear attack.