Giuliani’s race comments blow up the internet

[Valin]

Hot Air:

Jazz Shaw

November 24, 2014

 

Next time you invite Rudy Giuliani on the Sunday morning shows, make sure you give him the heavily caffeinated coffee, because once he gets wound up he really heads off to the races. Appearing on Meet the Press, the former Mayor was paired up with Georgetown professor Michael Eric Dyson to talk about race relations in Ferguson, and things got a little dicey.

 

(Snip)

 

As you can imagine, those last couple of lines essentially set of a tactical nuke of racism discussions on social media. In the ensuing muddle of words and cross patched accusations, some of the more useful and interesting facts underlying this long overdue discussion were, of course, lost. The first is the patently ridiculous assertion from Professor Dyson that “black people who kill black people go to jail.” How Chuck Todd let that one sail over the plate unchallenged is a mystery, since in all of the worst, gang afflicted urban areas of the country, that statement is simply untrue. In Chicago last year, out of more than 500 largely gang related murders, police managed to obtain a conviction in only 132 of them. The story isn’t much different in Giuliani’s old stomping grounds in the Big Apple and Los Angeles is much the same.

 

Granted, Dyson may have been implying that of those where a defendant is identified, the black offender goes to jail. This implies that there is a “system” in place shielding the white offender. But as the Los Angeles article linked above in particular notes, there is a separate “system” which frequently makes it nearly impossible for minority gang members to be brought to justice as well.

 

(Snip)

 

 

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[Cyber_Liberty]

FTA:

 

...the tie between poverty and crimes of all types is beyond question.

 

Who is this Jazz Shaw person? I call BS on this notion. If that "tie" was true, then the years of the Great Depression should have caused years of a rampant coast-to-coast crime wave. While there were notable mob figures and crime sprees (Bonnie and Clyde), the 20's had more violent crime than the 30's. Poverty != high crime, it's the culture rot that leads to both. Put another way, correlation does not equal causation.

 

This one fallacy is responsible for most of the societal decay we see today, because well-meaning but misguided government tweakers think they can reduce crime by shoveling taxpayer money into a hungry steam engine. Indiscriminately throwing money at problems like crime simply doesn't work. Fix what causes the culture of violence and the problem of poverty goes away.

[SrWoodchuck]

FTA:

 

...the tie between poverty and crimes of all types is beyond question.

 

Who is this Jazz Shaw person? I call BS on this notion. If that "tie" was true, then the years of the Great Depression should have caused years of a rampant coast-to-coast crime wave. While there were notable mob figures and crime sprees (Bonnie and Clyde), the 20's had more violent crime than the 30's. Poverty != high crime, it's the culture rot that leads to both. Put another way, correlation does not equal causation.

 

This one fallacy is responsible for most of the societal decay we see today, because well-meaning but misguided government tweakers think they can reduce crime by shoveling taxpayer money into a hungry steam engine. Indiscriminately throwing money at problems like crime simply doesn't work. Fix what causes the culture of violence and the problem of poverty goes away.

 

@Cyber_Liberty

 

We're a ways away from your last sentence. First, there must be an acknowledgement of the problem from those that are in poverty....and/or...still on the Liberal "Plantation." Since 2007-2008, we've been in a "celebrate black victimization" period. The period of Obama's reign can be rightly called the Racial Retribution & Reparation Era. It's a false premise....but it's reality.....and it's more than the pendulum swinging back to right any wrongs. It is couched in an appeal to greed, envy & false class struggle.

 

I read something last week (a comment, I think & paraphrasing): "Next time we shouldn't import our cotton pickers from Africa." This can be blasted as a racist comment, but if we examine an aspect of it......if there had never been any slave trading from Africa....would the underclass discriminated against, be Irish & Italians? Millions are streaming into America because even with the destruction of Obama & minions....there is no second best country for freedom & a possibility of the pursuit of happiness. None of my family throughout my life (great-grandparents, grandparents, parents, siblings or off-spring) have ever been a slave-owner. None, in my entire life experience have ever discriminated against another ethnic person. I have a feeling that few blacks, living today, were personally held as slaves in America. All the crap that Liberals throw at poor unfortunate blacks & illegal immigrants....is more of a salve for their white guilt, and a lever to keep them politically enslaved.......than a "helping hand."

 

If you appeal to a base human nature....you will attract a person that really wants nothing more than for government to take care of everything. That is not how most black Americans are....not how they want to be in actuality or in fact.....but many buy into the victimization & "everyone likes free," even if there is no such thing. JMO

[Cyber_Liberty]

You're correct, we're a long, long ways away, and I don't see it ever ending. I've always said it's a culture "thing," not a race "thing." It's easy to mash the two up, because there are distinctly racial cultures.

 

As long as there is profit to be made, and power to be derived, from tensions between the cultures, there will never be a unification of the people, and there will always be strife. Race hustlers gonna hustle, it's what they do to stay in nice suits.

 

We're about to get another look at that, because that Grand Jury is announcing its decision this afternoon in Missouri.

[SrWoodchuck]

Molly-coddling of God's dangerously spoiled children. Guaranteed failure....but Obama, Holder & the Just-Us Department have proven their supreme & natural capability (culpability?) at failure....

[Cyber_Liberty]

Is it a failure if they refuse to acknowledge it as such?

[NCTexan]

The mind numbed liberals and the great unwashed masses thought that "having the first black President" would do something positive for that community. It could have if he didn't make race the primary issue in most of his decisions, policies and appointments.

However, anyone who could believe someone who spent the previous 20 years of their life in Rev Wright's church would be "Post Racial" was just plain deaf and dumb. (In both senses of the later.)

America... Your chickens have come home to roost... in Ferguson and a town near you.

[SrWoodchuck]

Is it a failure if they refuse to acknowledge it as such?

 

No matter how "special" you think you are....you are not entitled to your own seriously disturbed facts.

 

Reality is a beyotch....and refusal of acknowledgement would be a sin of extreme vanity & omission.....and still a sin.

 

We still have to pay for our sins. If you're a liberal elite master....or just a liberal plantation slave....the difference would be that they feel it is okay to use taxpayer dollars to do it.

 

Problem is that secular payment is made, but the moral & ethical debt is still due.

 

Repeated sins of omission, is a sign of a soul & being turned inward towards self.

[Valin]

FTA:

 

...the tie between poverty and crimes of all types is beyond question.

 

Who is this Jazz Shaw person? I call BS on this notion. If that "tie" was true, then the years of the Great Depression should have caused years of a rampant coast-to-coast crime wave. While there were notable mob figures and crime sprees (Bonnie and Clyde), the 20's had more violent crime than the 30's. Poverty != high crime, it's the culture rot that leads to both. Put another way, correlation does not equal causation.

 

This one fallacy is responsible for most of the societal decay we see today, because well-meaning but misguided government tweakers think they can reduce crime by shoveling taxpayer money into a hungry steam engine. Indiscriminately throwing money at problems like crime simply doesn't work. Fix what causes the culture of violence and the problem of poverty goes away.

 

 

Ever heard of 5 Points?

 

http://youtu.be/IfukWWTS3VU

[Cyber_Liberty]

No. Can you give a person who can't hear very well a Reader's Digest version? Was there a crime wave in NYC? If so, did it extend to Kansas City?

 

Edited to add: N/M. I read the Wiki on it. Apparently it was a slum for a century or so. Also apparent is that it is/was a major center for crime. Is is because the people were/are poor, or are they poor because of the rampant crime? Seems like a chicken and egg argument....

Edited November 24, 2014 by Cyber_Liberty