Hundreds Dead in Egypt Crackdown

[SrWoodchuck]

'Working Group on Egypt' Statement

 

 

Despite the mistakes committed by former president Mohamed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood over the past year in Egypt, and despite the incitement and violence demonstrated by some Brotherhood supporters yesterday, the killing of hundreds of protesters carried out by the Egyptian military government was unnecessary, unjustified, and in contravention of international human rights standards. These events demand a shift in U.S. policy that is urgent and long overdue. We agree with President Barack Obama's decision to cancel the Bright Star joint military exercise, with his condemnation of violence against civilians, with his emphasis on the need for the Egyptian government to respect the human rights of all its citizens, and with his call for positive steps towards reconciliation.

 

However, the president's failure to suspend aid to the Egyptian military is a strategic error that undercuts those objectives and weakens U.S. credibility, after repeated calls by the U.S. administration for Egyptian authorities to avoid bloodshed have been disregarded. Whatever President Obama may say about U.S. support for democratic values in Egypt, continued U.S. aid sends a signal to the Egyptian military—and to the world—that the United States condones the Egyptian leadership’s actions. The continuation of aid removes a source of meaningful international pressure that could help to forestall future atrocities and prevent further steps toward consolidation of an undemocratic system in Egypt.

 

We therefore call on the Obama administration to take further steps, including an immediate suspension of military aid to Egypt. If the President fails once again to do so, we call on Congress to suspend military assistance to Egypt until such time as:

(Snip)

I am very very disappointed in

Robert Kagan

Reuel Gerecht

Elliott Abrams

 

They should know better. Peaceful protesters.....Riiiight! They should know better.

 

 

That working group needs to go back to work until they get it right....correct.

 

1.) Arab groups led by Saudi Arabia have given Egypt 12 billion.

 

2.) The last US aid of 1.5 billion [?] was split evenly by the Army & the Muslim Brother Hoods. The Army used it for defense of Egypt, including new hostilities with Hamas, Al Qaeda & the Hoods. What did the Hoods use it for?

[Valin]

2.) The last US aid of 1.5 billion [?] was split evenly by the Army & the Muslim Brother Hoods. The Army used it for defense of Egypt, including new hostilities with Hamas, Al Qaeda & the Hoods. What did the Hoods use it for?

Do you have a link for this? Thanks.

[Pepper]

Semi related from US Department of State 2012

 

"the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) has provided over $28 billion in economic and development assistance to Egypt since 1975."

 

 

Also

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/09/the-u-s-gives-egypt-1-5-billion-a-year-in-aid-heres-what-it-does/

[Valin]

Semi related from US Department of State 2012

 

"the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) has provided over $28 billion in economic and development assistance to Egypt since 1975."

 

 

Also

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/09/the-u-s-gives-egypt-1-5-billion-a-year-in-aid-heres-what-it-does/

Dear Senators McCain, Graham, Paul, Cruz

 

I have a simple question for you. We cut off aid to Egypt...And Then What Happens? I mean other than the NY times says nice things about you..for a couple of days.

[Valin]

Egypt looks at dissolving Muslim Brotherhood

Jazz Shaw

August 17, 2013

 

If they move ahead with this plan, it could wind up being big news. And not necessarily for the better.

 

 

Egyptian premier proposes dissolution of Muslim Brotherhood

 

Egyptian Prime Minister Hazem el-Beblawi has proposed the legal dissolution of the Muslim Brotherhood and the government is studying the idea, a government spokesman said.

(snip)

The MB cant be too terribly surprised at this turn of events, given how their legions of followers have been running around burning Christian churches and other assorted hijinks during their Day(s) of Rage. The provisional government / military rule has to be getting pretty uncomfortable behind closed doors, particularly when the US is talking about shutting down the cash faucet.

 

But everyone both inside and outside of Egypt will have to make sure theyre ready for whats likely to come if this is the direction were going to go in. (Keeping in mind that it may well have been the only viable option all along.).....(Snip)

[Valin]

Via Meadia: Average Egyptians Not Aghast At Armys Actions

8/16/13

 

If all you read is up-to-the-minute coverage of whats been going on in Egypt over the past three days, you might be forgiven for assuming that what the Egyptian Army is doing somehow defies the wishes and desires of most Egyptians. With the caveat that the plural of anecdotes is not data, an article in the New York Times this afternoon provides a much more nuanced picture of how a substantial portion of Egyptian society may have understood the armys actions yesterday:

 

(Snip)

 

That last point is critical, and is often overlooked by Westerners trying to understand the Middle East. Its a point ably elaborated by Adam Garfinkle in his guest post here at VM yesterday:

 

 

The Middle East lacks the warm, fuzzy affection for the underdog that many Americans take to be second nature. The dominant view of what is still a patriarchal, hierarchical and still clingingly pre-modern set of Muslim Middle Eastern societies is that the weak deserve whatever depredations they suffer. Its a kind of ur-Social Darwinism that has been at work for many centuries before Darwin himself ever saw light of day.

 

As I also said before, I think Egypts military leaders are right about this. And I suspect they recognized that the longer they waited to crack down on the Muslim Brotherhood encampments the better prepared the MB would be to resist. And they have resisted, and are still doing so.

(Snip)

[SrWoodchuck]

 

2.) The last US aid of 1.5 billion [?] was split evenly by the Army & the Muslim Brother Hoods. The Army used it for defense of Egypt, including new hostilities with Hamas, Al Qaeda & the Hoods. What did the Hoods use it for?

Do you have a link for this? Thanks.

 

 

@Valin! I've looked for over an hour for the thing but can't find the direct link. US policy has been to give 1.3 billion [average] to Egypt, to help with their military....plus another 250-300 million for other aid. Since the money is deposited in the Egyptian government's account, it was being used by MB-hood. The MB-hoods have used US aid to fund 2,500-3,000 Al Qaeda fighters in the Sinai. The 1.3 billion given by the US to Egypt has stayed the same since 1979 Egypt-Israeli peace accord & is tied to that.The Army is using the money & operating sometimes in unison with Israel to defend the Sinai. In addition to the figures above, Obama has "forgiven" the Muslim Brotherhood government another 1 to 2 billion dollars.....and had talked about increasing aid directly to the MB-hoods by another billion. Below is the only link that comes close to the one I read a few days ago:

 

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1308/15/cnr.10.html

 

Aired August 15, 2013 - 15:30 ET

 

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN's Jake Tapper, anchor of "THE LEAD," joins me from Washington, and Michael Youssef here in studio, who was born and raised in Egypt, is the founder and president of Leading the Way, a worldwide ministry.

 

Welcome to both of you.

 

Mr. Youssef, let me begin with you, because this is home.

 

MICHAEL YOUSSEF, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, LEADING THE WAY: Yes.

 

BALDWIN: This is home. Watching the blood running down the streets, hearing the numbers increase of those killed, the churches burned, including the one you attended.

 

YOUSSEF: When I was a child, yes.

 

BALDWIN: So how tough is that to watch?

 

YOUSSEF: It's very painful. It really is painful.

 

I'm an American. I have been an American for many years. And America is my home. And, therefore, America comes first to me, not the political factions of Egypt. And it is not in America's interest to begin with to side with the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

We not only sided with them. We supported them. Kerry gave them some extra $400 million that he found somewhere. And that money never gets to the

 

MICHAEL YOUSSEF, PRESIDENT, "LEADING THE WAY": ... to begin with to side with the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

We not only sided with them. We supported them. Kerry gave them some extra $400 million that he found somewhere.

 

And that money never gets to the Egyptian people. It gets split up at the top echelon of the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

And, look, in 12 months, they brought 3,000 Afghani and Libyan terrorists and housed them in Sinai under the leadership of Osama bin Laden's former doctor. They brought arms by the ton from Libya and Turkey.

 

And these people who were so peaceful protesters, they were armed to the teeth. When they finally broke the barricade, went in there, they found so much arms it's like a country inside a country.

 

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We're hearing all these different accounts, and it is sort of difficult to sort through and find the truth in all of this, let me say that.

 

I'm going to come back to you in a minute because Jack Tapper, to you, big news today. We heard from President Obama at Martha's Vineyard. He's away. He addresses Egypt, specifically.

 

Do you think that this was something he had to do at this point?

 

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE LEAD": I think so, especially after the smoke cleared, as one senior administration official put it to me.

 

And the true extent of the violence was known yesterday, Brooke, as you know. You and I were both reporting of body counts along 150. And then now we know it's more than 500. That's just the official count, so who knows if it's even more than that as many people, many skeptics, suspect.

 

The decision was made last night, I'm told by a senior White House official, to suspend this joint U.S./Egyptian military operation. The Obama administration started talking about suspending this operation in June after the coup, or whatever you want to call it, when Morsy was removed from power.

 

And what the Obama administration did was just hold off on delivering four F-16 fighter planes at the time, suspended that delivery.

But now after having warned the Egyptian military, the government there, not to try to clear the squares as they did and, having not been listened to, the Obama administration decided to take this next step.

 

But the step after that, Brooke, that's the big one, $1.5 billion in aid. Would the Obama administration actually take that step? I think that's a much tougher question.

 

BALDWIN: And also, though, Jake, when you look at the money that's also coming in from other countries, the 1.5 billion, 1.3 billion, whatever approximately the number is, sort of seems like small potatoes.

 

And I'm just wondering if -- and talking to Ivan Watson and General "Spider" Marks earlier on my show, you know, whether or not Egypt cares if that were to be off the table.

 

How much is Egypt right now listening to Washington?

 

TAPPER: I don't know how much Egypt is listening to Washington. Apparently not enough for the White House's purposes.

But, keep in mind, it's not just $1.5 billion as a monetary figure. Most of that is in direct military aid. In other words, the money goes to the treasury. It's put into an account. And then that money is spent on fighter planes and other military hardware that the Egyptian army, the Egyptian air force, want and need.

 

So it's not just cash that their leaders can use however they see fit. It's not just economic aid, which is also part of it. But most of the money is spent here in the U.S. on these munitions and these tanks and these planes that the Egyptian army feels like they need for their security.

 

And, of course, sometimes that security, as we see, is against their own people. But it's an important point to make, Brooke, because it's not just the monetary value. The United States obviously a leading -- or the leading manufacturer of weapons in this world and tanks and planes. And, therefore, it's what that money is spent on.

 

BALDWIN: Jake, we'll see you at the top of the hour on "The Lead."

 

And, Mr. Youssef, my final question to you, as a man of religion, it's been interesting looking at the numbers.

 

When you look at the populous of Egypt, you see approximately 90 percent Muslim, 10 percent Coptic Christian. Yet both from what I've read, at least, want this secular government. Is that attainable?

 

YOUSSEF: It is attainable. And this is the problem. It's not a matter of they are not listening to Washington. Is Washington listening to the Egyptian people? Thirty-three million people took to the streets. Never in human history have we ever heard of this, 33 million people.

And they said, we do not want an Islamic government. There was no gas, no electricity --

 

BALDWIN: Looking ahead, again, is that possible?

 

YOUSSEF: It is possible, only if the United States and this administration take their hands off.

Forget about the $1.5 billion. I think they can do without. Putin is now going to Egypt. He's going to give them all the arms they want. And, you see, we could lose the entire Middle East just simply because we're not listening to the people.

We're listening to a small segment of the people, not the 33 million, but to the 200,000 protesters who were armed protesters.

And you know who the first people who were killed in that whole thing? And I'm telling you because I'm interested in the truth.

 

BALDWIN: But were you there?

 

YOUSSEF: A hundred officers who are all Muslims or mostly Muslims. So this is Muslim against Muslim. It's not a matter of a Christian, Muslim.

 

BALDWIN: You say U.S. hands off.

 

YOUSSEF: It's sad to see the lovely police people, lovely police guys get killed by their fellow Muslims.

 

BALDWIN: OK, Michael Youssef, thank you very much.

 

YOUSSEF: Thank you, Brooke.

 

Additionally over 200 M1A1 Abrams tanks & the F-16's were not a part of the "military" package......and that adds up to 1.76 billion.

[Draggingtree]

Egypt, Islamism, & The Blood Calculus

By Rod Dreher • August 17, 2013, 9:24 PM

 

David Rohde thinks the Obama administration has failed miserably in its response to the Cairo massacres.

 

And:

 

The message the White House sent to young Islamists in Egypt this week was clear: What jihadists have been telling you about American hypocrisy for years is true. Democratic norms apply to everyone but you. Participating in elections is pointless. Violence is the route to power. Wherever he is hiding in the mountains of Pakistan, Ayman al Zawahiri is likely pleased.

 

I think he’s right. But I also think the Morsi government’s behavior in office, and the behavior of many Islamists today, backs up what Egyptians who feared Muslim Brotherhood rule had been saying for years. Here’s the latest:

 

After torching a Franciscan school, Islamists paraded three nuns on the streets like “prisoners of war” before a Muslim woman offered them refuge. Two other women working at the school were sexually harassed and abused as they fought their way through a mob.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/egypt-islamism-blood-calculus/

[Draggingtree]

PRESIDENT OBAMA, ISSUE EMERGENCY ASYLUM TO CHRISTIANS IN EGYPT (Geller, Atlas Shrugs)

Posted on August 17, 2013 by Pamela Geller

Enough. The abandonment of religious minorities under the sharia has become a hallmark of the Obama presidency. Hundreds of thousands of Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Catholics in Egypt, Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, Lebanon, Malaysia et al are victims of oppression, subjugation and ethnic cleansing. President Obama did nothing. Worse, President Obama went so far as to remove the sections covering religious freedom and religious persecution from the Country Continue reading →http://dcclothesline.com/2013/08/17/president-obama-issue-emergency-asylum-to-christians-in-egypt-geller-atlas-shrugs/#more-16051

[Draggingtree]

World Silent As Brotherhood Targets Coptic Christians

Mon, Aug 19 2013 00:00:00 EA18_ISSUESPosted 08/16/2013 06:54 PM ET

 

Mideast: Christians in Egypt are again the target of Islamist Muslim Brotherhood supporters using the new violence as a cover for ongoing persecution. If Christians were burning mosques, the world would be outraged.

 

Amid the raging violence in Egypt, a less-publicized war is being waged against Egypt's long-persecuted Coptic Christians, this time using the excuse that they were somehow involved in the military's ouster of the Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammed Morsi from power.

 

Coptic Christians comprise up to 10% of Egypt's 84 million people.

 

Ishaq Ibrahim from the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights group has documented as many as 39 incidents of violence against churches, monasteries, Coptic schools and shops in different parts of the country within the past few days. They include Thursday's torching of the Prince Tadros Church in the province of Fayoum, where three similar attacks occurred on other churches the day before.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/081613-667882-muslim-brotherhood-targets-coptic-christians.htm

[Valin]

 

Do you have a link for this? Thanks.

@Valin! I've looked for over an hour for the thing but can't find the direct link.....

 

 

Thanks for the effort. It would not surprise me in the least if it were true, but you know me ....I like to see sources, and not all sources are created equal