The Vatican and Islam

[Draggingtree]

The Jerusalem Post:

The Vatican and Islam

 

By JOSEPH D’HIPPOLITO

06/05/2013 22:55

 

As the world focused on a pope’s election and the enthusiasm that immediately followed, another significant religious event escaped detection.

 

Two weeks after Argentine Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio became Pope Francis I, a prominent Italian commentator who converted from Islam to Catholicism in 2008 announced he would leave the Church.

 

Magdi Allam – an emigrant from Egypt who fights Islamism in Europe and who was baptized by Pope Benedict XVI – wrote in his March 25 column for Milan’s Il Giornale that he was leaving “because this Church is too weak with Islam.”

 

Allam is right.

 

Since Pope John Paul II’s tenure, the Catholic Church has refused to hold Muslim theologians and clergy accountable for the hatred and violence

 

Will exposing the barbarians for what they are, decrying genocide as such and demanding accountability work? Perhaps not. But unless Francis and his bishops – indeed, all Christian leaders – take a more forceful stance, even at the expense of their cherished ecumenical dialogue, their churches will continue their slide into moral irrelevance.

 

 

[Valin]

Pretty much B as in B...S as in S

 

It was articles like this that bring a smile to Ayman al-Zawahiri's face and feed the ignorance of so many people. Great job Joe!!

[NCTexan]

I can't imagine Zawahiri's thrill with this... but that's just me.

 

In my opinion, way too many church leaders of all denomination have tread too lightly on speaking out against militant Islam. I sure see it in the "PC" positions taken by my mainline Protestant denomination... on Islam, Palestine, and a myriad of social issues.

[Draggingtree]

I can't imagine Zawahiri's thrill with this... but that's just me.

 

In my opinion, way too many church leaders of all denomination have tread too lightly on speaking out against militant Islam. I sure see it in the "PC" positions taken by my mainline Protestant denomination... on Islam, Palestine, and a myriad of social issues.

Here, here.

[Valin]

 

I can't imagine Zawahiri's thrill with this... but that's just me.

 

In my opinion, way too many church leaders of all denomination have tread too lightly on speaking out against militant Islam. I sure see it in the "PC" positions taken by my mainline Protestant denomination... on Islam, Palestine, and a myriad of social issues.

Here, here.

 

You don't think this plays right into his ideology that "The West" hates Muslims and want to kill/enslave/oppress them? Because that is right at the heart of there ideology.

I would also note little jimmy doesn't mention militant (Political/Salafits...whatever) Islam...just Islam.

[Draggingtree]

 

 

I can't imagine Zawahiri's thrill with this... but that's just me.

 

In my opinion, way too many church leaders of all denomination have tread too lightly on speaking out against militant Islam. I sure see it in the "PC" positions taken by my mainline Protestant denomination... on Islam, Palestine, and a myriad of social issues.

Here, here.

 

You don't think this plays right into his ideology that "The West" hates Muslims and want to kill/enslave/oppress them? Because that is right at the heart of there ideology.

I would also note little jimmy doesn't mention militant (Political/Salafits...whatever) Islam...just Islam.

JOSEPH D’HIPPOLITO wrote the article and he lives in Ca. what I took from the message he a non believer in Christ. But to your point yes he threw some wood on the fire.

[NCTexan]

You don't think this plays right into his ideology that "The West" hates Muslims and want to kill/enslave/oppress them? Because that is right at the heart of there ideology.

 

@Valin

 

No I don't. I think there are ways to be strong on these issues but not hateful.

 

I try to stand back and take a fair look at the leaders of my denomination... realizing that they are but men and fallible in their thoughts and actions like myself.

[Valin]

 

You don't think this plays right into his ideology that "The West" hates Muslims and want to kill/enslave/oppress them? Because that is right at the heart of there ideology.

@Valin

 

No I don't. I think there are ways to be strong on these issues but not hateful.

 

See Daniel Pipes (to mention one) for how it is done.

[JosephDHippolito]

Thank you for paying attention to my article. Now, Valin, some challenges for you:

 

First, why should anybody care what a butcher like al-Zawahiri thinks? This was the same fellow who not only helped play 9/11 but also the assassination of Anwar Sadat, at the very least.

 

Second, where are the responsible parties in Islam to act not only against terrorism against innocents (including fellow Muslims) but against those theologians and clerics who preach hate in mosques and on television throughout the Middle East?

 

When such parties -- if they exist -- fail to act, they essentially besmirch their entire faith. It's no different from Catholic religious authorities failing to confront the clerical sex-abuse crisis forthrightly.

 

Third, does it really matter if a minority of one billion Muslims advocates violence if that minority has cowered "moderate" Muslims from confronting the evil in their midst?

 

Fourth, you seem offended by my anger. Yes, I'm angry. I'm angry that the innocent are murdered. I'm angry that God's name is used in vain to support such murder. I'm angry that Christian authorities do not give a damn about the murder of the innocent. As a now-former Catholic, I'm angry at this spineless Pope.

 

Why aren't you angry?

Instead of being offended at the immorality described above, you are offended at the way I express myself and at the possibility that my opinion might make militant Muslims more angry (as if they need any more rationalizations)

Neville Chamberlain would be proud of you, sir.

 

P.S.: Regarding your referring to me as "little Jimmy": You can take that reference and use it as a suppository -- or, in your case, a tampon.

[Valin]

@JosephDHippolito

 

First: You answered your own question.

 

Second:

We might start here

 

 

Or Abdurrahman Wahid Former President of Indonesia and his party or AKA Gus Dur.

 

The Iranian Green Movement also comes to mind

 

The early days of the Arab Spring

 

Protests raise pressure in 'polarised' Malaysia

 

 

A story from a couple of years ago A Indonesian mob stormed a jail holding Islamic terrorists. They took them out and give them the Danny Deaver treatment...hung them.

 

 

Point is these stories are out there, and it is up to Licensed Certified Official Journalists to bring them to us.

 

Third: Why does it matter? Because they are the prize in this global guerilla war.

 

Forth:

 

"An angry man opens his mouth and shuts his eyes."

Cato

 

"Never do anything when you are in a temper, for you will do everything wrong."

Baltasar Gracian

 

"Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy."

Aristotle

 

 

 

I would also add your rapier like wit has devastated me...I am just crushed.

 

 

PS: Read some damn History The Catholic Church has been around for 2000 years and in that time there have been things done that make some Priests who like little boys seem like a Sunday school picnic. Pope Alexander VI and his "loving" family come to mind.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Valin
PS

[JosephDHippolito]

Valin, you talk about the Iranian Green movement and the "early days of the Arab Spring." Tell me, where is the Iranian Green movement now, after having been suppressed by the theocrats and their minions in the Revolutionary Guard? Where has the "Arab Spring" led, so far? Certainly not to Jeffersonian Democracy or respect for human rights but for more (if quieter) Islamist regimes (such as in Tunisia) and the Syrian Civil War, neither of the participants in which would support Jeffersonian Democracy or respect for human rights.

 

BTW, mob or popular action is one thing. The behavior of those who claim to represent the religious establishment is quite another. Where do you see stories about Muslims protesting the kind of hateful, violent preaching that's a daily staple of Middle Eastern television? Where do you see Muslims acting against the "blood libel" that Jews make matzoh using the blood of Arab or Muslim children?

 

As I've mentioned earlier, if a minority has the power to overwhelm a majority, it will do so. The Nazis never won a majority in any fairly contested Reichstag election (though they won pluralities). The Bolsheviks were called that precisely because they represented a minority view in Russian Social Democratic Party.

 

To quote your most eloquent self, "read some damn history."

 

I also suggest you read some Scripture, especially Ezekiel 34, Matthew 23 and 1 Samuel 23:12-36. Who cares how long the Catholic Church has lasted? Do you think a holy, righteous God is amused when people (such as Muslim terrorists) take His name in vain to justify murder? Do you think He is amused when bishops who claim authority in His name ignore the molestation of the innocent?

[Valin]

 

Fine...Right...Whatever. I know nothing of what I'm talking about.