Not Such a Hot Idea: Liberal and Conservative Parties

[Geee]

Town Hall:

"More tears are shed over answered prayers," the 16th century nun St. Teresa of Avila is supposed to have said, "than over unanswered ones."

So it may be appropriate to shed a tear for two or three generations of American political scientists whose prayers have been answered -- in a way that most political scientists today regret.

The prayers of the political scientists in the 1940s, 1950s and into the 1960s was that our party system would evolve into one with one clearly liberal party and one clearly conservative party.

This was a common enough argument at the time. The Gallup poll used to periodically ask voters if this was a good idea, and about half of them thought it was.

The political scientists had a point. In the wake of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, American politics seemed horribly scrambled.

[Valin]

Town Hall:

"More tears are shed over answered prayers," the 16th century nun St. Teresa of Avila is supposed to have said, "than over unanswered ones."

So it may be appropriate to shed a tear for two or three generations of American political scientists whose prayers have been answered -- in a way that most political scientists today regret.

The prayers of the political scientists in the 1940s, 1950s and into the 1960s was that our party system would evolve into one with one clearly liberal party and one clearly conservative party.

 

So now political scientists lament gridlock and polarization and partisanship and reminisce about those (mostly mythical) days when politicians of both parties got along.

 

 

We can see the genesis of this in two events in the 1960's. A The Nomination of Barry Goldwater in 1964 defeating Nelson Rockefeller and B. the 1968 Democratic national convention in Chicago in 1968. With the attending "protests". You combine these with George McGovern Roe v Wade, the decline of the power of the National Parties (and other things) and here we are. I see screaming and hollering from the grass roots of both the Left and Right when a politician doesn't toe the line.

[Geee]

Once upon a time in a land far far away you voted for some one and sent him to Washington. One of the most important qualities was integrity and because of that you trusted that they had all the facts and voted what they thought was right to the best of their ability. (Mr. Smith goes to Washington). With the way Washington works today if a politician votes his conscience and does not vote the party line, he is ostricized by his party and committee assignment taken away etc etc. - plus with the way bills work now, how can they vote to the best of their ability even if they were allowed to. The bills are so complicated and convoluted and pushed through, they don't or can't even read them. Politicians can no longer be individuals with individual ideas and ideals, if they are to stick around they must become rubber stamps.

[Valin]

Once upon a time in a land far far away you voted for some one and sent him to Washington. One of the most important qualities was integrity and because of that you trusted that they had all the facts and voted what they thought was right to the best of their ability. (Mr. Smith goes to Washington). With the way Washington works today if a politician votes his conscience and does not vote the party line, he is ostricized by his party and committee assignment taken away etc etc. - plus with the way bills work now, how can they vote to the best of their ability even if they were allowed to. The bills are so complicated and convoluted and pushed through, they don't or can't even read them. Politicians can no longer be individuals with individual ideas and ideals, if they are to stick around they must become rubber stamps.

 

 

I hope you are not trying to say that partisan politics and political horse trading (see log rolling) were the exception that proved the rule? One of the things we are seeing today (and for quite some time now0 is the breakdown of the national party structure/discipline. Not that long ago when freshmen Senators and Congressmen were expected to sit down and shut up....seen and not heard.

[Geee]

We don't vote them in to sit down and shut up.

[Valin]

We don't vote them in to sit down and shut up.

 

Just saying not that long ago (10-20 years) that was the case. In the 1950's if you were a freshman senator you didn't cross (Dem.) LBJ or (Rep.) Everett Dirkson..at least not very often or without a damn good reason. Or you would find yourself up a certain creek without a paddle. There is a good reason why Mitch McConnell & John Boehner were able to hold the entire GOP together to vote against Obamacare, The Law was laid down...vote for this and it will not go well for you. Of course in this case it didn't hurt that the Dems played it politically stupid.