Will multiple states’ non-cooperation be too much for ObamaCare?

[Valin]

Hot Airt:

 

Erika Johnsen

11/12/12

 

(Snip)

Last week, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced that the government is extending the deadline by which states must submit their blueprints for their exchanges, meant to be tools with which consumers can shop around for insurance options, but all states must still indicate whether they’re planning on doing it themselves, forging a partnership with the feds, or letting the federal government do it for them, by this Friday.

 

Certain states have been wrestling with the decision — to try and do the best they can for their state with the new normal, or let the federal government lie in the bed it made for itself? Phil Klein, among others, thinks that states shouldn’t acquiesce; Washington is going to end up making all of the really important decisions anyway, so why even invite the appearance that the states have any meaningful control over what’s going on or take any of the pressure off the feds? Several states have declared flat-out that they will not be participating, and there are plenty more with misgivings — seventeen states or more may end up fully relying on Washington for their exchanges.

 

Which could be kind of a major problem for the federal government; WaPo has the skinny on how much work it is to set up these insurance exchanges, and if the federal government has to manage all this… that’s a lot of bureaucrats.

 

(Snip)

 

[clearvision]

Between this and companies cutting below 50 employees, converting workers to <30, and doing other avoiding things, it may all crash and burn.

[pollyannaish]

This is going to get ugly.

[Argyle58]

This is going to get ugly.

 

This is ALREADY ugly. Job market has gone totally stagnant already. Where this is all headed is much worse than ugly. I suggest that those who haven't done so already start stockpiling food, ammo and fuel.

[pollyannaish]

This is going to get ugly.

 

This is ALREADY ugly. Job market has gone totally stagnant already. Where this is all headed is much worse than ugly. I suggest that those who haven't done so already start stockpiling food, ammo and fuel.

 

We started stockpiling food this summer. I've added all kinds of staples we don't use on a day to day basis into my pantry and we're trying to continue to add little by little. Next up, water. I'm not sure we can do fuel though. (Although we do have a small log pile for heat.)

 

We may have to just walk.

[clearvision]

So I think we will see a whole new range of business types forming. Since 30 hours is the new "full time". Why not have your grocery store split into multiple companies. Stocking/Cashiers/MeatCounter/Baggers all separate companies contracting to the parent grocery store. Employees are easily accepted to different sub companies so work 2 or 3 jobs for the 40 to 60 hours (remember no over time now either since working for a different company). Companies still get benefit of employees that know the store/routine and are good. Bad employees just thru word of mouth don't get hired by any.

[pollyannaish]

So I think we will see a whole new range of business types forming. Since 30 hours is the new "full time". Why not have your grocery store split into multiple companies. Stocking/Cashiers/MeatCounter/Baggers all separate companies contracting to the parent grocery store. Employees are easily accepted to different sub companies so work 2 or 3 jobs for the 40 to 60 hours (remember no over time now either since working for a different company). Companies still get benefit of employees that know the store/routine and are good. Bad employees just thru word of mouth don't get hired by any.

 

I think this is exactly what will happen. Health Insurance was originally a ploy to get around wage controls. Now there will be multiple ways to get around mandatory health care. The sad part is that this shifts the mandatory part of the health care law onto the workers, and makes the amount they get paid less and less. As a result, we end up with fewer people in the middle class.

 

My bet: In about two years the whole thing will be so frustrating and confusing the government will make a play to take over all of it. I suspect we'll see that start to become a refrain in 2014.

[clearvision]

So I think we will see a whole new range of business types forming. Since 30 hours is the new "full time". Why not have your grocery store split into multiple companies. Stocking/Cashiers/MeatCounter/Baggers all separate companies contracting to the parent grocery store. Employees are easily accepted to different sub companies so work 2 or 3 jobs for the 40 to 60 hours (remember no over time now either since working for a different company). Companies still get benefit of employees that know the store/routine and are good. Bad employees just thru word of mouth don't get hired by any.

 

I think this is exactly what will happen. Health Insurance was originally a ploy to get around wage controls. Now there will be multiple ways to get around mandatory health care. The sad part is that this shifts the mandatory part of the health care law onto the workers, and makes the amount they get paid less and less. As a result, we end up with fewer people in the middle class.

 

My bet: In about two years the whole thing will be so frustrating and confusing the government will make a play to take over all of it. I suspect we'll see that start to become a refrain in 2014.

Yes I think that is the big risk. It will either collapse and something relatively good will come of it... or it will collapse and the left will pull us to single payer.

[pollyannaish]

So I think we will see a whole new range of business types forming. Since 30 hours is the new "full time". Why not have your grocery store split into multiple companies. Stocking/Cashiers/MeatCounter/Baggers all separate companies contracting to the parent grocery store. Employees are easily accepted to different sub companies so work 2 or 3 jobs for the 40 to 60 hours (remember no over time now either since working for a different company). Companies still get benefit of employees that know the store/routine and are good. Bad employees just thru word of mouth don't get hired by any.

 

I think this is exactly what will happen. Health Insurance was originally a ploy to get around wage controls. Now there will be multiple ways to get around mandatory health care. The sad part is that this shifts the mandatory part of the health care law onto the workers, and makes the amount they get paid less and less. As a result, we end up with fewer people in the middle class.

 

My bet: In about two years the whole thing will be so frustrating and confusing the government will make a play to take over all of it. I suspect we'll see that start to become a refrain in 2014.

Yes I think that is the big risk. It will either collapse and something relatively good will come of it... or it will collapse and the left will pull us to single payer.

Yup. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of some of my former employers. I know that a bunch of them are dropping back to part time employees. Another uses HSAs to save money. They'll hurt the most because they have over 50 employees.

[Argyle58]

They were not shy when they began all of this about admitting that it was just the first step toward a true single payer system. We will, quite soon I'm sure, end up with another government bureaucracy that costs more than the benefits it distributes while making us feel like low lifes for questioning them on exactly what benefits were qualify for.

 

As a side note, I am shocked at the amount of talk going around about secession and civil war. Not on tin foil hat web sites either, but Face Book and national talk radio shows.

[pollyannaish]

Me too @Argyle58. I think this secession stuff is silly and represents a lack of bearings and ODS. We can be more constructive.

[SrWoodchuck]

Me too @Argyle58. I think this secession stuff is silly and represents a lack of bearings and ODS. We can be more constructive.

God bless ya, @pollyannaish......you're the eternal "glass half full" optometrist......this is for you:

 

[Rokke]

I'll confess that I signed the petition for Colorado to secede. Purely for entertainment value. But in all seriousness, if Texas was able to secede, I'd pack up and move there. No doubt about it. In fact, I would love to have 50 real options for places to consider moving. Imagine each state being able to govern its own economy and rules. Hmmmm. Guess I was born 200 years too late.

On another topic, @clearvision nails it I think. No company can afford Obama care. A vast majority of employment will shift to part time. There is not a chance Obamacare will be financially viable. It it will become obvious before it's even fully implemented. Looking into the future, the only thing that is certain is that no part of government will end up looking like it does now. For better or for worse.

[pollyannaish]

Hahaha! That's good SrWoodchuck. I'd have to say that I resemble the Marketing one just a smidge. (Hiding head in shame...)

 

Here is my favorite version. I like the creativity of the last guy. And Gary Larson.

 

[pollyannaish]

Ha @Rokke! I'd do that but I'm afraid they'd come and take me away in this blue state of mine.

 

I had some people at a company I worked at previously try to get us to join the Free State Project with the goal of moving to New Hampshire. It seemed to me that moving to Alaska would be more interesting.

 

Edited to add: I still think the secession stuff is silly. Being born 200 years too late, not so much. Every once in awhile I still want to be Laura Ingalls.

 

[Valin]

Gov. Haslam faces deadline on health exchange plan

Health insurance exchange spurs battle

Getahn Ward

11/13/12

 

With a looming Friday deadline to declare the state’s intentions regarding a health insurance exchange under health care reform, Gov. Bill Haslam is weighing a desire for state control supported by business groups against opposition from lawmakers in this own party.

 

States have to inform the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services whether they plan to set up their own health insurance markets or to partner with or leave it up to federal officials to run one here. Starting in 2014 under health care reform, consumers and small businesses will be able to shop for insurance coverage on such Internet-based exchanges or marketplaces.

 

Haslam, who opposes the reform law, sees benefits in the state running the one planned here, but acknowledges that getting approval from the Republican-controlled legislature would be difficult.

 

(Snip)

[Valin]

This is going to get ugly.

 

This is ALREADY ugly. Job market has gone totally stagnant already. Where this is all headed is much worse than ugly. I suggest that those who haven't done so already start stockpiling food, ammo and fuel.

 

The People Have Voted...Now They Must Be Punished.

 

 

Question: What would happen if a number of states simply told the federal government they chose not to play?

Or the US House Budget Committee says they are not going to fund any of the ACA programs?

[Argyle58]

Me too @Argyle58. I think this secession stuff is silly and represents a lack of bearings and ODS. We can be more constructive.

 

Agreed, but this is no isolated protest movement. As of today the following 34 states have filed secession petitions on the White House website's "We The People" page in the past week:

 

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, West Virginia and Wyoming.