Jews and Muslims Unite to Fight Germany for Basic Human Freedom

[Valin]

Via Meadia:

 

Walter Russell Mead

6/28/12

 

On Tuesday Via Meadia blogged about a decision by a court in Cologne that ruled “the body of the child is irreparably and permanently changed by a circumcision.” Our take was that by banning what for thousands of years has been seen as a core element of Jewish identity, law and tradition, the court was essentially criminalizing the practice of Judaism in Germany.

 

(Snip)

 

But Muslim and Jewish groups across Germany understand very clearly just what a threat this decision poses to their right to live by the light of their consciences in the Berlin Republic. Both groups were quick to criticize the ruling.

 

(Snip)

 

First, for Muslims and perhaps especially for Jews, male circumcision is deeply embedded in the core of their religious beliefs. Female genital mutilation (mostly though not exclusively practiced by certain Muslim groups) on the other hand is a folk practice and tradition that is not required or even sanctioned by the Koran and it is at best tolerated but more widely condemned by Islamic scholars and clerics.

 

Second, the effect of the two operations is profoundly different. The female operation is far more invasive and destructive than the procedure performed on boys. The pain, the health risks and the personal and social consequences of the one operation are orders of magnitude greater than in the other case.

 

(Snip)

 

 

Via Meadia, even at the risk of self-parody, stands by our original take: the misguided decision by the German court criminalizes the practice of Judaism in Germany and, we add, is a profound insult to Islam. There are questions where the religious beliefs of the parents and the best interests of the child do raise tough questions that can justify state intervention (can Christian Scientist parents deny cancer treatment to a child, for example) but the question of male circumcision doesn’t even come close.

 

 

This is one reason why Via Meadia should be on your daily reading list.

[Draggingtree]

HuffPo: Calling People “Islamists” Is A Derogatory Term…

 

 

Is It Time to Reconsider the Term Islamist? — HuffPo

 

Motivated by her faith, she was a powerful advocate for radical political and social change. Upon meeting her, President Abraham Lincoln reportedly said, “So this is the little lady who made this big war.”

Was Harriet Beecher Stowe a Christianist?

At this year’s National Prayer Breakfast, President Barack Obama said his policies were grounded in his Christian beliefs. In a 2008 speech, former GOP presidential contender Rick Santorum said America was in the middle of a spiritual war in which “Satan has his sights on the United States of America.”

Are Obama and/or Santorum Christianists?

The answers to those questions would depend on how the term is defined. But it is unlikely you will hear any Christian politician or activist referred to in that way.

What American and western audiences are increasingly hearing, however, since the political and social upheaval that accompanied the Arab spring, is the term Islamist.

Muslims already face significant prejudice in Read More http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-briggs/islamist-is-it-time-to-reconsider-the-term_b_1624319.html

[Valin]

@Draggingtree

 

Yes?

A. Remember Huffpo says a lot of things, some of them even have a passing acquaintance with reality.

B. What does that have to do with A. the topic & B. the price of tea in China?

[Draggingtree]

Hospital doubts legality of circumcision

 

Published: 30 Jun 12 15:21 CET

 

Berlin's Jewish Hospital has suspended all non-medical circumcision procedures amid legal uncertainty resulting from this week's court ruling that it amounts to bodily harm and criminal assault.

 

The hospital decided to stop performing the procedures in light of Tuesday's ruling by the Cologne district court, Kristof Graf, head of the Department for Internal Medicine at the Jewish Hospital told the Tageszeitung newspaper on Saturday.

 

After consulting with internal and external lawyers on the subject, the hospital decided their doctors could not continue to operate on legally uncertain ground. The hospital performed 300 procedures last year, of which 100 were for non-medical reasons, said Graf.

 

Meanwhile, both Jewish and Muslim leaders have that male circumcision is a fundamental and ritual part of their faith.

 

"Circumcision is absolutely fundamental for the Jewish faith and non-negotiable," head of the Central Council of Jews in Germany Dieter Graumann told Focus magazine on Saturday. If the Cologne Court's ruling is taken as a precedent then "Germany would be the only country in the world in which circumcision is forbidden," he added.

 

Meanwhile Aiman Mazyek, head of the Central Council of Muslims in Germany, told the magazine that his organisation was thinking of taking the question of ritual circumcision before Germany's highest court.

 

However, a clear survey conducted on behalf of the magazine found that a majority snip Read More http://www.thelocal.de/national/20120630-43477.html

[Draggingtree]

[Valin]

 

As someone who had it done at 12, let me tell you, it's better to have it done shortly after you're born!

[Draggingtree]

Hmmm

Beings I was born in Austin, I have forgotten the date

[Draggingtree]

Via Meadia:

 

Walter Russell Mead

6/28/12

 

On Tuesday Via Meadia blogged about a decision by a court in Cologne that ruled "the body of the child is irreparably and permanently changed by a circumcision." Our take was that by banning what for thousands of years has been seen as a core element of Jewish identity, law and tradition, the court was essentially criminalizing the practice of Judaism in Germany.

 

(Snip)

 

But Muslim and Jewish groups across Germany understand very clearly just what a threat this decision poses to their right to live by the light of their consciences in the Berlin Republic. Both groups were quick to criticize the ruling.

 

(Snip)

 

First, for Muslims and perhaps especially for Jews, male circumcision is deeply embedded in the core of their religious beliefs. Female genital mutilation (mostly though not exclusively practiced by certain Muslim groups) on the other hand is a folk practice and tradition that is not required or even sanctioned by the Koran and it is at best tolerated but more widely condemned by Islamic scholars and clerics.

 

Second, the effect of the two operations is profoundly different. The female operation is far more invasive and destructive than the procedure performed on boys. The pain, the health risks and the personal and social consequences of the one operation are orders of magnitude greater than in the other case.

 

(Snip)

 

 

Via Meadia, even at the risk of self-parody, stands by our original take: the misguided decision by the German court criminalizes the practice of Judaism in Germany and, we add, is a profound insult to Islam. There are questions where the religious beliefs of the parents and the best interests of the child do raise tough questions that can justify state intervention (can Christian Scientist parents deny cancer treatment to a child, for example) but the question of male circumcision doesn't even come close.

 

 

This is one reason why Via Meadia should be on your daily reading list.

http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2012/07/02/german-court-ban-on-circumcision/

 

German Court Ban on Circumcision Opens Sluice Gate for Anti-Semitism

 

 

July 2, 2012 - 6:25 am - by David P. Goldman

 

The law court for Germany’s Cologne province on June 26 made it a criminal offense for parents to circumcise a child on religious grounds. Hospitals throughout Germany are refusing to perform the procedure in the expectation that other courts will follow the Cologne example, while physicians’ associations have recommended that their members stop circumcisions to avoid legal consequences. Although the case under review involved a Muslim family, the decision opened a sluice gate for an outpouring of anti-Semitic sentiment.

 

Once again, the German court decision demonstrates why people of faith must make common cause against all infringements of religious freedom. In the United States, the most egregious assault on religious liberty is the Obama administration’s attempt to force Catholic institutions to pay for contraception and abortion through Obamacare. I wrote in this space last February that they will come for us after they come for the Catholic Church. The matter of circumcision also requires Jews to make common cause with Muslims on the matter of religions freedom. We have our differences with Muslims, but we should remember Ben Gurion’s advice to fight the war as if there is no White Paper and fight the White Paper as if there is no war. Let me repeat this: Jews must defend the religious freedom of Muslims on matters such as circumcision without conceding (for example) the application of Sharia in family law.

 

UPDATE: Prof. Robert George, the distinguished Catholic legal theorist at Princeton University, posted an eloquent call for Christians to support Jews in this matter at the Mirror of Justice blog:

 

In view of a recent development in Germany, I here wish to say that Christians, especially those of us who are Catholics, should be particularly outspoken in defending the rights of Jews and the Jewish people. It is not simply the memory of past crimes committed by Christians, including leaders of the Church, against Jews—crimes sometimes committed in the very name of Christian faith. It is the fact that we are taught by our Church, and so we believe, that the Jews are the chosen people of God, bound to him in an unbroken and unbreakable covenant. Moreover, for Christians, Jews are, in the words of Blessed Pope John Paul II, our “elder brothers in faith.” From a Christian point of view, the Jewish witness in the world has profound and indispensable spiritual meaning.

 

The recent development in Germany Read More http://pjmedia.com/spengler/2012/07/02/german-court-ban-on-circumcision/

[Valin]

@Draggingtree

 

Antisemitism it just never goes away. I recall reading an article in The American Spectator(?) 10 years ago(?) where the writer said it was no long forbidden to make antisemitic remarks in London, even in the "best circles". It's not just on the Left, although right now that is where we primarily see it, there is of course Pat Buchanan and his paleocons that come to mind.

 

But that's ok because The Jews have support in the highest levels of power..."I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

 

[Draggingtree]

@Draggingtree

 

Antisemitism it just never goes away. I recall reading an article in The American Spectator(?) 10 years ago(?) where the writer said it was no long forbidden to make antisemitic remarks in London, even in the "best circles". It's not just on the Left, although right now that is where we primarily see it, there is of course Pat Buchanan and his paleocons that come to mind.

 

But that's ok because The Jews have support in the highest levels of power..."I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

Amen Brother