No Winners… Yet

[Geee]

American Spectator:

AMES, Iowa -- Tim Pawlenty didn't even try to hide his contempt for Michele Bachmann in Thursday's GOP presidential debate here, and the question is whether the repeated hostile exchanges between the two Minnesotans hurt her, hurt him, or hurt them both.

Egged on by Fox News host Brett Baier, Pawlenty doubled down on his earlier criticism of Bachmann, saying that "it is an undisputable fact that in Congress her record of accomplishment and results is nonexistent." Pawlenty also accused Bachmann of lying: "She's got a record of misstating and making false statements." And perhaps channeling his inner Spock, Pawlenty furthermore pronounced his rival "illogical."
Given a chance to reply, Bachmann said that, as governor, Pawlenty "implemented 'cap and trade' in our state, and you praised the unconstitutional individual mandates and called for requiring all people in our state to purchase health insurance that the government would mandate. You said the era of small government was over. That sounds more like Barack Obama, if you ask me."

One conservative woman from Minnesota who watched the debate here at the Stephens Auditorium on the campus of Iowa State University likened the two feuding Republicans to a brother and sister fighting at the family dining table. And Pawlenty's criticism of Bachmann seemed especially harsh by comparison to his remarks when offered the opportunity to defend his "ObamneyCare" description of former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney's health-care program: "ObamaCare was patterned after Mitt's plan in Massachusetts.… That's why I called it Obamaney care, and I think that's a fair label." Perhaps, but it's not exactly an insult on the level of calling Bachmann a liar.

The general consensus – at least among pundits, reporters, and bloggers here -- was that Pawlenty hurt himself. "He looked weak," said one Iowa blogger who was one of the 700 media credentialed for this event. And when I caught up with Bachmann's campaign manager Ed Rollins after the debate, he said his candidate was "strong."

Whether that perception was shared by Iowa Republicans -- especially the more than 10,000 who are expected to cast ballots in Saturday's straw poll here -- remains to be seen. But even if Pawlenty is deemed the loser of Thursday's debate, who was the winner? Certainly not Fox News. One of the highlights of Thursday's debate was when former House Speaker Newt Gingrich criticized the hosts for asking "gotcha" questions, saying they were "playing Mickey Mouse games."

[Valin]

Geee

 

And now another view

 

Commentary: Good Debate, Bad Candidates

John Podhoretz

11/12/11

 

Last night’s debate was immensely entertaining, as I relate in today’s New York Post. And it ought to put paid to the notion that the Fox News Channel​ is a Republican shill machine, since it featured the toughest and most pointed questioning in any presidential-primary debate ever. But the debate highlighted a very strange aspect of this race: Just how second-rate the candidates are. When it comes to speaking seriously about issues, showing appropriate demeanor, and connecting both to an actual political record, there are only two candidates in the race now that seem remotely plausible in the arena with Barack Obama​, and one of them (sorry, Abe) knocked himself out of the race last night for good.

 

Tim Pawlenty​ is a mystifying candidate. He’s fluent. He’s smart. He’s quick on his feet. He knows policy. He’s a conservative and he has mainstream credentials and a history of accomplishment. What he doesn’t have is…it. He’s lacking it, whatever the it is that a candidate who can connect to voters has. And when he decided last night to tussle with Michele Bachmann​, who is a stone killer of a politician, he literally shrank before our eyes.

 

He shouldn’t have been fighting with her; he needed to fight with Mitt Romney, whose record as a governor is highly problematic and far less successful than Pawlenty’s. Bachmann is far too radical, in every sense of the word, to be anything but a third runner-up in this race, but she is this year’s exciting populist. So she is free to be wildly irresponsible and incoherent in her talk about the debt ceiling, for example, because what she says doesn’t actually matter.

(Snip)

[Geee]

Valin, I have to admit, nobody REALLY stood out IMHO

[Evad]

Valin, I have to admit, nobody REALLY stood out IMHO

Pawlenty stood out.. he's an absolute horse's ass.

Reagan would be turning over in his grave at the disgraceful display by this guy. He lost me.

Noot gave the panel a few shots that was entertaining but other than that, a pretty lame display.

 

There was the potential for some great theater but it just didn't happen.