Afghans Angry Over Florida Koran Burning Kill U.N. Staff

[WestVirginiaRebel]

NY Times:

MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan — Stirred up by a trio of angry mullahs who urged them to avenge the burning of a Koran at a Florida church, thousands of protesters overran the compound of the United Nations in this northern Afghan city, killing at least 12 people, Afghan and United Nations officials said

The dead included at least seven United Nations workers — four Nepalese guards and three Europeans from Romania, Sweden and Norway — according to United Nations officials in New York. One was a woman. Early reports, later denied by Afghan officials, said that at least two of the dead had been beheaded. Five Afghans were also killed.

The attack was the deadliest for the United Nations in Afghanistan since 11 people were killed in 2009, when Taliban suicide bombers invaded a guesthouse in Kabul. It also underscored the latent hostility toward the nine-year foreign presence here, even in a city long considered to be among the safest in Afghanistan — so safe that American troops no longer patrol here in any numbers.

Unable to find Americans on whom to vent their anger, the mob turned instead on the next-best symbol of Western intrusion — the nearby United Nations headquarters. “Some of our colleagues were just hunted down,” said a spokesman for the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, Kieran Dwyer, in confirming the attack.

In Washington, President Obama issued a statement strongly condemning the violence against United Nations workers. “Their work is essential to building a stronger Afghanistan for the benefit of all its citizens,” he said. “We stress the importance of calm and urge all parties to reject violence.” The statement made no reference to the Florida church or the burning of the Koran.
________

One group of nutcases rioting against another who happens to be several thousand miles away...

[Valin]

WestVirginiaRebel

 

 

While I would never say that Terry Jones and his "Church" (BTW he is associated with the Westboro baptist church) are a bunch of morons with IQ's 6 points lower than a flatworm...but they do a very good impersonation of what they are like. And now they have blood on their hands, and have done their part to help Americas enemies. I say this because they knew that people would die, and they didn't care.

May God have mercy on them...because I don't.

[Pepper]

Valin!

 

You raise a good point but if you followed it to its end don't we end up surrendering to the camel jockeys? What makes them so special. Their intolerance?

 

Think about it.

 

We we can mock our war heros at their funerals and memorials, we can mock all but one religion on TV or radio, we can burn flags, we can burn Bibles, but we can't burn a single Koran because some fanatic might get upset?

 

Again, what makes them so special? Their intolerance?

 

Then you need to read Popper.

 

"We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal" .

[Valin]

Valin!

 

You raise a good point but if you followed it to its end don't we end up surrendering to the camel jockeys?

 

 

No. Remember who we are fighting and who the prize is.

[Pepper]

Let's see, we are fighting QDaffy and Al Qada, but Al Qada has interpersed among the rebels who all wear civies and drive Toyotas so who do we bomb today?

[Valin]

Let's see, we are fighting QDaffy and Al Qada, but Al Qada has interpersed among the rebels who all wear civies and drive Toyotas so who do we bomb today?

 

 

All true, but you don't quite have it. The enemy is the (to quote Walid Phares) Salafis/Khomeinist/Wahhabis, and the prize is those Muslims who are not part of this movement. Remember what their storyline is...'the Jews and Crusaders (that would be us and anyone who doesn't think exactly like they do) are trying do destroy Islam. Terry Jones has just gave these clowns a great big gift wrapped in a pink ribbon.

[SrWoodchuck]

Let's see, we are fighting QDaffy and Al Qada, but Al Qada has interpersed among the rebels who all wear civies and drive Toyotas so who do we bomb today?

 

 

All true, but you don't quite have it. The enemy is the (to quote Walid Phares) Salafis/Khomeinist/Wahhabis, and the prize is those Muslims who are not part of this movement. Remember what their storyline is...'the Jews and Crusaders (that would be us and anyone who doesn't think exactly like they do) are trying do destroy Islam. Terry Jones has just gave these clowns a great big gift wrapped in a pink ribbon.

After we've stopped jerks like Terry Jones from "exercising" his right to be stupid.......what prize will we have?

 

There has to be a moment of reckoning that establishes a sane & realistic "line in the sand," where "those Muslims that are not part of this movement" take a stand with the rest of an America they claim to love.

 

Will that be after Terry Jones is jailed for the actions of an Afghani mob living in the 7th century?

 

Islamic jihad is a cultural & religious, homicidal transnational dictatorship.....that has sworn to wreck our 'house' from within. These people actually want us all dead, and then they want to build their Caliphate on our graves.

 

If the brutal deaths in Afghanistan are to mean anything......appeasement by the selective restriction of our liberties, won't be the way to accomplish that. The mosque Imams that incite the crowds to homicidal fervor need to bear responsibility, the animals that did the killing need to be dealt with....and it needs to be public, and done by the Afghani government.

 

The UN is worthless, too slow to act & co-opted by aggressive Islamic states & America's enemies.....an exercise in futility.

 

We either recognize the danger of not thoroughly prosecuting acts of brutality [and act, including both judicial, correctional & extreme "kinetic action" if necessary;] or we keep our nuanced progressive mindset and wait for the bullet or the blade. Those that are my age might not see it......but our children & grandchildren will. Debt, dhimmitude & death.

[pollyannaish]

Well, I guess I have a simple minded summary:

 

1. Terry Jones is an idiot who set back our effort significantly through a stupid, insignificant act. What's that WWII saying..."Lose lips sink ships?" Well, sheer stupidity loses skirmishes in this one.

 

2. We can't shut him up, but that doesn't make what he did helpful.

 

3. The Afghan mob is still solely responsible for killing the UN Staff. In the same way I would be responsible for killing innocents if I went out and killed a bunch of Middle Easterners because Palestinian rioters burned a bible.

 

4. Our only hope of this thing ever ending is for Islam to moderate itself, much as Christianity did after the Crusades. If this does not happen, we will fight this war for all time. And that may actually be true (with lulls from time to time.)

[SrWoodchuck]

Now we have the real purpose behind the attacks on the UN compound:

 

Seven to fifteen armed Islamic jihadist infiltrators, blended in with protesters that had been whipped into a frenzy by religious leaders in their mosque; and when they reached the compound, they began to kill the Nepalese guards.

 

Elsewhere, another outpost was attacked by up to six jihadi terrorists, two wearing full burkhas. They simulated another protest & succeeded in blowing up their homicide vests [or being shot down by NATO guards] before breaching the Nato compounds security perimeter.

 

It was a ploy.....to use the Koran burning, as a feint to get close to any western compound & run amok.

 

Infiltrators Attacked Afghan UN Compound

 

NATO Says Repels Attack By Burqa-Clad Insurgents On Kabul Base

[SrWoodchuck]

Last week brought a sober reminder that every religion has its extremists, as Christian radicals burned one copy of the Quran [and Muslim radicals attacked a half-dozen churches, burned dozens of Bibles, and slaughtered 321 people in 26 terror attacks in just 7 days).

 

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace

[Valin]

Now we have the real purpose behind the attacks on the UN compound:

 

Seven to fifteen armed Islamic jihadist infiltrators, blended in with protesters that had been whipped into a frenzy by religious leaders in their mosque; and when they reached the compound, they began to kill the Nepalese guards.

 

Elsewhere, another outpost was attacked by up to six jihadi terrorists, two wearing full burkhas. They simulated another protest & succeeded in blowing up their homicide vests [or being shot down by NATO guards] before breaching the Nato compounds security perimeter.

 

It was a ploy.....to use the Koran burning, as a feint to get close to any western compound & run amok.

 

Infiltrators Attacked Afghan UN Compound

 

NATO Says Repels Attack By Burqa-Clad Insurgents On Kabul Base

 

 

Thanks. Nobody ever said these guys were stupid. But in the end they will lose. Why do I say this? Becausethey offer nothing death poverty and the 10th century.

 

Something I have noticed (I still haven't quite got it right yet but still...) on the center (center left/center right) and the right (forget the extremes on both sides who are pretty much clueless) we see two different words being used, one group talks about Islam the other group talks about Muslims. This is as far as I've really gotten, other than to say Zi side with the latter group.

[nickydog]

Hmmm -- interesting observation, Valin. I'm going to pay attention to that distinction.

[Pepper]

If a woman chooses to wear a short skirt, walk in a part of town after dark, and is assaulted, who is to blame?

The woman or the animal who assaulted her?

 

 

Valin

 

Rather than making a distinction between Islam and Muslims, perhaps it is better to consider the words of Martin Kramer.

 

Written 8 days after 9/11, they still ring true today, IMHO.

 

Hijacking Islam: A religion in danger of deteriorating into a manifesto for terror.

 

Islam, the religion of more than a billion believers, has been hijacked. If the first week's suspicions are confirmed, the suicide attacks against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are the capstones of nearly twenty years of terrorism perpetrated in the name of Islam. As layer upon layer of violence has accumulated, Islam itself has come to be associated in many Western minds with terrorism. It is a tragic turn — and one for which the vast majority of moderate Muslims bears some responsibility.

 

Islam is no more inclined to terrorism than any other monotheistic faith. Like its sisters, Christianity and Judaism, it can be both merciful and stern in practice; like them, it also teaches the love of God and the humanity of all mankind, believers and unbelievers alike. In times past, Islam has served as the bedrock of flourishing, tolerant, and peaceful orders.

 

But sociologists will say that a religion, at any point in time, is whatever its adherents understand it to be. If that is so, then Islam, as understood by too many Muslims, is in danger of deteriorating into a manifesto for terror. The reason: Too many Muslims have been silent in the face of horrific deeds committed by an extremist minority.

 

In the pained expressions of decent Muslims, there is more than regret at America's loss. There is a growing realization that the men who brought down the twin towers put Islam in peril. Only Muslims can redeem it.

[Valin]

If a woman chooses to wear a short skirt, walk in a part of town after dark, and is assaulted, who is to blame?

The woman or the animal who assaulted her?

 

 

Valin

 

 

Or all men?

[pollyannaish]

Not to throw the thread or anything...but I've always wondered something. What would have happened to that woman if she was dressed in a long skirt? Or a burka? What if she was completely naked? Would bad things still have happened to her? I've just always found the formulation of that question somewhat specious to begin with. I know the explanation is that the woman is not responsible no matter what..but I'm a little confused by that as well. Anyway, I digress.

 

 

I think I may be missing something Valin: Isn't the distinction in terms Islam and Muslim the same one that distinguishes Christianity from Christian? Or Buddhism from Buddhist? One is the basic theological premise and the other the folks who interpret and practice it? The problem for the modern world, therefore, lies in how the believers of each interpret this theology and if they are able to accept others choosing a different guiding theology even if they do not agree?

 

Islam, as it is now practiced, is not a peaceful religion. But who is to say it couldn't be under the right circumstances? Other religions have certainly moderated themselves over time to compensate for pluralistic societies.

 

So what is the pattern you are seeing regarding people who use Islam v. Muslim? I use them both...but for different reasons. I don't see them as interchangeable.

[NCTexan]

If the Jones nutball had not pulled his act... does anyone think that there would not be another manufactured outrage by the Islamic extremists and their all to eager followers?

 

That one individual who represents nothing besides himself and his handful can spark this reaction a half world away puts the event into perspective.

 

If it were not Jones, it would be a cartoonist, a news paper article, a thread with opinions like this very thread here... that could/would be used.

 

Look at what has sparked the exact same reactions and murder over there... Christian workers trying to bring aide to their helpless and hurting... but being viewed as bringing the "satanic message" of Christianity in their world.

 

Yes... Jones is an idiot but did not cause their reaction.... it was a already reaction just waiting for a trigger.

 

BTW, I despise when some make the moral equivalence of the average "Christian Extremist" and the "Muslim Extremist".

[Evad]

Let's see, we are fighting QDaffy and Al Qada, but Al Qada has interpersed among the rebels who all wear civies and drive Toyotas so who do we bomb today?

Pepper--" so who do we bomb today? "

Apparently, the new strategy is... we bomb anything that moves.

We either hit a Gadaffy-ite or and Alqaeda-ite.

Sounds like a win win.

[Pepper]

Evad It may be a win win for Obama in 2012 unless he gets stuck with a Libyan tar-baby.

 

 

 

 

NCTexan SrWoodChuck

True.

 

If it weren't for Jones, somebody or something else would be the daily excuse to kill Christians.

[NCTexan]

If it weren't for Jones, somebody or something else would be the daily excuse to kill Christians.

I'm firmly convinced that these guys are sitting by their fax machines every morning... waiting for their daily DNC Talking Points Muslim Rage of the Day Instructions.

 

[righteousmomma]

Islam is no more inclined to terrorism than any other monotheistic faith. Like its sisters, Christianity and Judaism, it can be both merciful and stern in practice; like them, it also teaches the love of God and the humanity of all mankind, believers and unbelievers alike. In times past, Islam has served as the bedrock of flourishing, tolerant, and peaceful orders.

 

1. All three of the major world "religions" are based on one Book's teachings.

 

2. They are not sisters.

 

3 Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity are not sisters either.

 

And edited to say (because I forgot the first time)

 

BTW, I despise when some make the moral equivalence of the average "Christian Extremist" and the "Muslim Extremist".

Me too!