Are You Smarter Than an Eighth Grader (From 1895)?

[Valin]

NY Times:

STEPHEN J. DUBNER
2/22/11

The Salina Journal, a daily newspaper in Salina, Kansas, has published a final exam that was given to local eighth-graders in 1895 (via this friendly website). (“It was taken from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS.”) The PDF is available here.

I would be very curious to know how modern eighth graders would do on the test — not that success would necessarily be all that meaningful. I also wonder how Watson would do.

(Snip)

Well are you?

[Saltbag]

Hmm...

 

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp

[Valin]

Hmm...

 

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp

 

 

Perhaps someone should point out to the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS that this never existed.

[Saltbag]

Even though the source is bogus, even the NYT can occasionally make a valid point.

 

Privatize education. Plain and simple. If I had a nun smacking me with a ruler, I probably wouldn't be the miscreant I am today.

 

This is not what they meant, but if they can quote a false source, I'm free to extrapolate all I want. Artistic privileges.

[Valin]

Even though the source is bogus, even the NYT can occasionally make a valid point.

 

Privatize education. Plain and simple. If I had a nun smacking me with a ruler, I probably wouldn't be the miscreant I am today.

 

This is not what they meant, but if they can quote a false source, I'm free to extrapolate all I want. Artistic privileges.

 

 

I went to parochial grade school and high school, I always remember my 5th grade teacher Sister Margret telling us "You will learn this. God forbid I told my parents Sister was being mean, as their 1st question would be...What did you do wrong? generally followed by some sort of punishment.

[saveliberty]

 

 

I went to parochial grade school and high school, I always remember my 5th grade teacher Sister Margret telling us "You will learn this. God forbid I told my parents Sister was being mean, as their 1st question would be...What did you do wrong? generally followed by some sort of punishment.

 

Mom is a retired teacher (non unionized) and chuckled when I read this to her. Thanks, Valin!

[pollyannaish]

A couple of points on this...partially, based on my experience as a teacher.

 

First of all, I would fail. Although I could probably figure some of it out if I sat down and thought about it.

 

HOWEVER, it is important to note that Snopes does not refute that this is an 8th grade test from that era, but they refute the summations of the point it is trying to prove. After I read their explanation, I actually agree with Snopes on a couple of things. (It's worth reading.)

 

1. It would be much easier to do this test if we had recently gone through a curriculum that was based on it. I learned a lot of things in high school that I did well on at the time. I have retain little pieces of it, but I guarantee I could not pass the tests I passed with flying colors then. Why? Because I do not use that material regularly. Instead, I have become very familiar with the material I use each and every day to do whatever job I am doing right now. How brains could not hold all the things we learn. My children, who are 14 and 17 regularly go through Algebraic formulas on assignments and in tests that I could do at one time. But today, since I have not touched or needed them in Thirty years they look completely greek and overwhelming to me. That doesn't mean I'm not smart, it means I didn't need the information. If I had become an engineer I would remember because I would have used it.

 

2. It is a good illustration of how curriculum has changed over the last hundred and fifty years. Some of this, our children know. Some of it they do not. BUT if you look at this closely, you see that it does a good job of preparing the children of the 1860s for the life they were living RIGHT THEN. Some of it is applicable now, some of it is not. SO, what we should be asking ourselves is "Is the curriculum we have today correctly preparing our children for the LIFE THEY ARE GOING TO LEAD?" Certainly the questions that test the understanding of how interests works, how health and nutrition work are still important...but perhaps the emphasis/context in which they are taught should be slightly different. And History and Language are also important to help students understand how they function. But they also need to understand a LOT of things that never even existed there that we must know to survive today. So "smart" which I would argue is actually "knowledge" must be much more EXPANSIVE than this test illustrates for todays 8th grader.

 

3. There is no doubt today's education is lacking. However there are certain things that are important to note. First, not every student in the world has the capacity to be a rocket scientist. Extremely high level education for the sake of education is a waste of time, effort and resources. Not every person in the world needs a college education. We need to quit using High School as a "pre-college" educational function and start emphasizing curriculum that will help people with life and with ALL careers. We need to offer college alternatives that provide all kinds of practical information relating to specific functions and careers to replace the apprenticeship approach we used to have in the US. Many are over educated for their jobs and career paths and it puts undo pressure on the workforce.

 

4. I guess the short way of saying it is that curriculum wouldn't necessarily make our children today any "smarter." What we need is curriculum at every level that BETTER matches the world we actually live in...not the world some ivy-league-never-been-outside-the-academy-leftists thinks it should be. We need more PRACTICAL education...and THAT is what we can learn from this test.

 

 

/frustrated about education and the shallow discussions of the problems rant.

[Saltbag]

Nice rant, Polly.

 

Yes, years ago I passed calculus and quantum physics exams, but I'd be freakin' doomed if I had the same test today. And to your point, I've used calculus exactly one time in my professional career, and quantum physics,... yeah, less than that. What struck me the most when I read the test was the difference between conceptualization and rote memory in education. Kids need more "why" than "what," although with the agenda in today's schools I think I'd rather provide the "why."

[pollyannaish]

Nice rant, Polly.

 

Yes, years ago I passed calculus and quantum physics exams, but I'd be freakin' doomed if I had the same test today. What struck me the most when I read the test was the difference between conceptualization and rote memory in education. Kids need more "why" than "what," although with the agenda in today's schools I think I'd rather provide the "why."

 

Ha! Join the club. I never took those...but heck, I can't even help my kids with Algebra 2. Who am I fooling. I got lost in Algebra one chapter three.

 

As far as rote goes, I think it is a balance. There are some things that you MUST learn by rote. For instance, you must memorize geography by rote, or the periodic table, or things of that nature and even phonics. You MEMORIZE the key...and then learn how to apply them properly.

 

So for instance: In the illustration above, it is clear that students learned by rote certain information. For instance, in language they learned "case." In mathematics, they memorized measurements. But you'll notice that the test measured both the memorized information, AND it's application. That is the STRUCTURE that we have abandoned in much of our curriculum today. We teach one or the other, but in may cases we do a poor job of requiring the extra effort it takes to learn the entire process.

 

I saw this particularly in some college courses. Just parts and pieces. It was frustrating.