The Ugly Thing About a Papal Visit

[Valin]

Hugh Hewitt Blog:

John Schroeder

Friday, September 25, 2015

 

It’s not in the mainstream press, but it is on my Facebook feed. It is not discussed in polite company, but I have heard my fair share of snide remarks in private conversation. Anti-Catholic sentiment in this nation remains very real and there is nothing like a papal visit to bring it out. I am not talking about theological or ecclesiastical disagreements here, I am talking about “the pope is the anti-Christ and will usher in the destruction of the world” kind of stuff. It is the oddest form of bigotry I have ever run into because it always comes from Protestants, ignoring the fact that their very name indicates that their roots are in the Catholic Church. Without Catholicism, there is no Protestantism.

 

Moreover, it usually comes from protestant denominations that sprang from other protestant denominations, not from Catholicism itself. It is as if someone woke up one morning and said, “You original Protestants do not hate the Roman Catholics enough, we have to start something new.” For the record, I am not Catholic – I am one of those “original” Protestants which frankly makes me a rarity into today’s America. I am a high church man with a strong affinity for a large and well organized denominational structure. I am a conservative Presbyterian with an evangelical outlook, but I am no longer sure I can label myself “Evangelical” in the sense that that word in the last couple of decades has come to carry. I do not view the Roman Catholic church as “the one true church,” but I do view it as the predominant and most historically important of the Christian expressions.

 

And therefore, I do not for the life of me understand the vitriolic and outspoken resentment, if not hatred, of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

I have examined it and discussed it and tried to understand it, but I cannot. I ask, and I get quoted all sorts of theological differences. But when I point out that the person I am talking to has similar theological differences with other, non-Catholic, Christians of similar nature and extent that does not result in such ugly rhetoric and dismissal I am simply told that I don’t really understand. Likewise when the topic is differences in ecclesiastical structure. There is something entirely unreasonable to the anti-Catholic sentiment that runs through our nation.

 

(Snip)

 

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I wonder if people have ever asked themselves a small simple question....Do You Think God really care all that much about Transubstantiation...For or Against?

[SrWoodchuck]

@Valin

 

I wonder if people have ever asked themselves a small simple question....Do You Think God really care all that much about Transubstantiation...For or Against?

 

 

As a central tenet of my Roman Catholic faith, I must believe that He does. Salvation by literally eating His flesh & drinking His blood, is mentioned by Jesus many times in the New Testament, not just at the Last Supper.

 

It isn't any more difficult to believe in our age than it was to his disciples & followers in His age; remembering that they were Jews with a whole system of societal, dietary & cleanliness rules to follow.

 

Suggesting something akin to cannibalism, must have required some definite mind-blowing acceptance.

 

Then, there are miracles, sanctioned by the Church, regarding the Body & Blood of Jesus, at various times of Roman Catholic church history:

 

http://www.catholicdoors.com/misc/eucharisticmiracles.htm

[Valin]

@SrWoodchuck

 

So Baptists don't make the grade?

 

Larger point. There was a time when I thought all these different sects, denomination were bad thing. That we should all believe the exact same thing. Then one day a thought occurred to me, what if they are not bad, what if this is all part of Gods plan?

A couple of points, in no particular order

1. The Church (the body/bride of Christ) is made up of people.

2. People are sinners. Sinners is a polite way of saying we're a bunch of dirt bags...see Paul 1 Timothy 1:15.

3. God knows us. Knows us better than we know ourselves. God knows exactly what we need and where we are supposed to be, in order to come closer to him.

4. For some its (say) a little store front church, for others its (say) a cathedral, Eastern Orthodox, Rome, Protestant, God (if we shut up and listen) takes us where we need to be to know him better.

 

So you accept Transubstantiation. Great...Fantastic...I have no problem with someone accepting that as true...likewise not accepting it as true. If that is what it takes to draw you closer to God, to know and love him more...I think that's great!!! Because the whole purpose of this life is to draw closer to Him, know Him better, and tell people God Loves You, so we are ready for what's coming next, I have no clue as to what it will be (eye has not seen, ear has not heard...etc), but its gonna be REALLY GREAT!

 

So now this is pretty much what I believe.

Nicene Creed

 

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

 

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

 

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

 

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

 

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

 

That and Mere Christanity

[SrWoodchuck]

@SrWoodchuck

 

So Baptists don't make the grade?

 

Larger point. There was a time when I thought all these different sects, denomination were bad thing. That we should all believe the exact same thing. Then one day a thought occurred to me, what if they are not bad, what if this is all part of Gods plan?

A couple of points, in no particular order

1. The Church (the body/bride of Christ) is made up of people.

2. People are sinners. Sinners is a polite way of saying we're a bunch of dirt bags...see Paul 1 Timothy 1:15.

3. God knows us. Knows us better than we know ourselves. God knows exactly what we need and where we are supposed to be, in order to come closer to him.

4. For some its (say) a little store front church, for others its (say) a cathedral, Eastern Orthodox, Rome, Protestant, God (if we shut up and listen) takes us where we need to be to know him better.

 

So you accept Transubstantiation. Great...Fantastic...I have no problem with someone accepting that as true...likewise not accepting it as true. If that is what it takes to draw you closer to God, to know and love him more...I think that's great!!! Because the whole purpose of this life is to draw closer to Him, know Him better, and tell people God Loves You, so we are ready for what's coming next, I have no clue as to what it will be (eye has not seen, ear has not heard...etc), but its gonna be REALLY GREAT!

 

So now this is pretty much what I believe.

Nicene Creed

 

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

 

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

 

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

 

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

 

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

 

That and Mere Christanity

 

I agree, @Valin.

 

I used to point out (@ Prison Ministry) that in the Nicene Creed (A.D.-300?) the word catholic is not capitalized, as it means "universal." Since most of the inmates are not Roman Catholic, I tried to make them comfortable, but I was required by my mandation from the Archdiocese of Denver to read them the "Rules for receiving the Blessed Sacrament in the Catholic Church."

 

I'm certainly a sinner, so I don't pretend to own the right way of worship.....only what's right for me.

 

 

I'll let God sort that out.

 

I can't believe that even an atheist that lived a right life & treated others with love & compassion, would fail to find favor in His eyes.