Architects and historians wonder: Maybe the new Notre Dame should be less “overburdened” with Christian meaning

[Valin]

Hot Air

AllahpunditPosted

April 17, 2019

I don’t share Michael Brendan Dougherty’s faith but I do share his impulse in reading this Rolling Stone piece: “I promise right now. If you try to rebuild it as a ‘secular’ Notre Dame, reflecting the political priorities of 2019, I will do my damndest to see that the next fire takes it all down. I won’t come alone.”

Imagine believing that our tawdry, meaningless age might improve upon the grandeur of the old cathedral. And yet:

Quote

[F]or some people in France, Notre Dame has also served as a deep-seated symbol of resentment, a monument to a deeply flawed institution and an idealized Christian European France that arguably never existed in the first place. “The building was so overburdened with meaning that its burning feels like an act of liberation,” says Patricio del Real, an architecture historian at Harvard University. If nothing else, the cathedral has been viewed by some as a stodgy reminder of “the old city — the embodiment of the Paris of stone and faith — just as the Eiffel Tower exemplifies the Paris of modernity, joie de vivre and change,” Michael Kimmelmann wrote for the New York Times…

Although Macron and donors like Pinault have emphasized that the cathedral should be rebuilt as close to the original as possible, some architectural historians like Brigniani believe that would be complicated, given the many stages of the cathedral’s evolution. “The question becomes, which Notre Dame are you actually rebuilding?,” he says. Harwood, too, believes that it would be a mistake to try to recreate the edifice as it once stood, as LeDuc did more than 150 years ago. Any rebuilding should be a reflection not of an old France, or the France that never was — a non-secular, white European France — but a reflection of the France of today, a France that is currently in the making. “The idea that you can recreate the building is naive. It is to repeat past errors, category errors of thought, and one has to imagine that if anything is done to the building it has to be an expression of what we want — the Catholics of France, the French people — want. What is an expression of who we are now? What does it represent, who is it for?,” he says.

(Snip)

Assuming they plan to replace the wooden roof, they’ll need literally an entire forest for the timber. To match the damaged stone properly, it’ll need to be quarried in Normandy by hand. Critics who want to secularize the space will no doubt use all of that to their advantage: “We can have the site under reconstruction for decades by foolishly trying to re-create the original structure or we can do our own thing with modern materials and be done much sooner.” Why would coming generations that don’t remember Notre Dame as it was and thus have no emotional attachment to the old structure object? The only forces that might be capable long-term of insisting on restoring Notre Dame to what it was are (a) a Christian revival in France, which seems unlikely, or (b) a nationalist takeover, which is far more likely but would bring with it some of the typical cultural and political ugliness that always comes with Euronationalism. And if it does end up as a nationalist project, it’ll be as much a political monument to the nationalists themselves as it will a Christian monument. What will a non-nationalist Catholic think of Our Lady if it becomes a symbol of Front National?

 

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I am reminded of this.....................

Monstrosity at the Louvre.

[Valin]

France Will Host An International Design Competition To Replace Notre Dame's Fallen Spire

OK, I've got a crazy idea. Why not replace the fallen spire with an exact copy?

[Geee]

 

"Architects and historians wonder: Maybe the new Notre Dame should be less “overburdened” with Christian meaning"

 

Then whats the point

[Geee]

I wonder how many people that are donating to restore it think that it should be other than it was ??? Not many I think.

[Valin]

2 hours ago, Geee said:

 

"Architects and historians wonder: Maybe the new Notre Dame should be less “overburdened” with Christian meaning"

 

Then whats the point

 

Oh you don't actually believe all that silly Christian Mythology now do ya? 

 

[Valin]

[Draggingtree]

 

[Valin]

Plans for restoration of fire-damaged cathedral will be 'as if Disney were entering Notre-Dame'

John Sexton

Nov 26, 2021

(Snip)

As bad as this sounds, a French newspaper explains the changes are not being driven by the state (which officially owns the cathedral) or by some secular architect. Instead, the changes are being driven by representatives of the church.

Quote

…some of these have been confirmed to us by Father Drouin himself. This priest is the liturgist that Monsignor Michel Aupetit – the Archbishop of Paris – chose to reflect on the organization of the liturgical and worship spaces of the restored cathedral. Mr. Rimoux is a light sculptor and works on the lighting project for the dark Gothic setting of Notre-Dame de Paris.
The priest and the architect spoke about Notre-Dame during programs or conferences broadcast on the internet. On May 12, Father Drouin intervened, by videoconference, in a meeting organized by the Catholic Teaching of Paris. Perhaps unaware that the meeting would be webcast, the liturgist presented some extracts from the cathedral restoration project classified as “ confidential ”. During his speech, he unrolled the breadcrumb trail that inspired the redefinition of the spaces of Notre-Dame. He mentioned in particular a ” catechumenal path ” (*) whose goal would be to evangelize tourists who will start visiting the cathedral again after its reopening. For the priest, before the fire, “Twelve million visitors” came each year to Notre-Dame with “multiple motivations” , among them many were “of non-Christian culture” or even “post-Christian.”…

The project revealed in the spring of 2021 by the liturgist of Notre-Dame showed the aspect that the renovated chapels could have had. Two alternatives were presented: the conservation of the stained-glass windows of Viollet-le-Duc and the affixing of abstract pictorial works on the walls. Or the substitution of old stained-glass windows with new ones dedicated to modern subjects, while retaining the current appearance of the walls.

(Snip)

We’ve already been through one round of this. Initially there were plans to host a contest open to architects for a new take on the roof of Notre Dame. But that plan was quickly shelved as most people, including donors, wanted a true restoration of what had been lost, not a brand new approach. So now that these plans for an updated interior have leaked, I guess we’ll see what the reaction is.

[Geee]

44 minutes ago, Valin said:

Plans for restoration of fire-damaged cathedral will be 'as if Disney were entering Notre-Dame'

John Sexton

Nov 26, 2021

(Snip)

As bad as this sounds, a French newspaper explains the changes are not being driven by the state (which officially owns the cathedral) or by some secular architect. Instead, the changes are being driven by representatives of the church.

(Snip)

We’ve already been through one round of this. Initially there were plans to host a contest open to architects for a new take on the roof of Notre Dame. But that plan was quickly shelved as most people, including donors, wanted a true restoration of what had been lost, not a brand new approach. So now that these plans for an updated interior have leaked, I guess we’ll see what the reaction is.

Another part of history destroyed. Drip drip drip. 😪

[Valin]

1 minute ago, Geee said:

Another part of history destroyed. Drip drip drip. 😪

 

Obviously they were racist, homophobes, and didn't care about climate change, so they Must be Unpersoned.

[Valin]

 

[Geee]

‘Woke Disney’: France’s Heritage Commission Approves Plans To Transform Notre Dame Cathedral

Despite public outcry, France’s National Heritage and Architecture Commission voted Thursday to approve restoration plans that critics claim will turn historic Notre Dame cathedral into a “woke” theme park.

The plans, overseen by Father Gilles Drouin, include removing confessionals and altars from the 13th-century edifice and replacing classic artwork and sculpture with modern “street art.” The culture ministry has confirmed that “street art pioneer Ernest Pignon-Ernest, as well as other modern artists such as Anselm Kiefer and Louise Bourgeois, are among the names being considered for display when new art installations replace some of the little-used 19th-century confessionals,” reports AFP.

[Valin]

1 hour ago, Geee said:

‘Woke Disney’: France’s Heritage Commission Approves Plans To Transform Notre Dame Cathedral

Despite public outcry, France’s National Heritage and Architecture Commission voted Thursday to approve restoration plans that critics claim will turn historic Notre Dame cathedral into a “woke” theme park.

The plans, overseen by Father Gilles Drouin, include removing confessionals and altars from the 13th-century edifice and replacing classic artwork and sculpture with modern “street art.” The culture ministry has confirmed that “street art pioneer Ernest Pignon-Ernest, as well as other modern artists such as Anselm Kiefer and Louise Bourgeois, are among the names being considered for display when new art installations replace some of the little-used 19th-century confessionals,” reports AFP.

 

Why does this not surprise me? Not only are we in a Post-Christian West, but a Post-Historical West.  The old is Always Bad, we have moved beyond all those silly unscientific ideas of old. Or so say "Our Betters". They have lost the ability to even consider They May Be Wrong. 

 

"“Have you ever noticed,” said Dimble, “that the universe, and every little bit of the universe, is always hardening and narrowing and coming to a point?”His wife waited as those wait who know by long experience the mental processes of the person who is talking to them.“I mean this,” said Dimble in answer to the question she had not asked. “If you dip into any college, or school, or parish, or family — anything you like — at a given point in its history, you always find that there was a time before that point when there was more elbow room and contrasts weren’t quite so sharp; and that there’s going to be a time after that point when there is even less room for indecision and choices are even more momentous. Good is always getting better and bad is always getting worse: the possibilities of even apparent neutrality are always diminishing. The whole thing is sorting itself out all the time, coming to a point, getting sharper and harder."

That Hideous Strength CS Lewis (1945) 

[Valin]

We have gone from this...

 

...to this

[Valin]

From This...in just our life time

 

To This

 

[Geee]

1 hour ago, Valin said:

 

Why does this not surprise me? Not only are we in a Post-Christian West, but a Post-Historical West.  The old is Always Bad, we have moved beyond all those silly unscientific ideas of old. Or so say "Our Betters". They have lost the ability to even consider They May Be Wrong. 

 

"“Have you ever noticed,” said Dimble, “that the universe, and every little bit of the universe, is always hardening and narrowing and coming to a point?”His wife waited as those wait who know by long experience the mental processes of the person who is talking to them.“I mean this,” said Dimble in answer to the question she had not asked. “If you dip into any college, or school, or parish, or family — anything you like — at a given point in its history, you always find that there was a time before that point when there was more elbow room and contrasts weren’t quite so sharp; and that there’s going to be a time after that point when there is even less room for indecision and choices are even more momentous. Good is always getting better and bad is always getting worse: the possibilities of even apparent neutrality are always diminishing. The whole thing is sorting itself out all the time, coming to a point, getting sharper and harder."

That Hideous Strength CS Lewis (1945) 

I guess if I was never lucky enough to see Notre Dame, I never would see it now even if I got there. Sad.

[Valin]

1 hour ago, Geee said:

I guess if I was never lucky enough to see Notre Dame, I never would see it now even if I got there. Sad.

But...But it will be Much Better than what has been there for 600+ years, Neon lighting digital displays and and everything!